Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. This month, we are celebrating Black history, and we're focusing on Harlem. The new docuseries Harlem Ice follows several teenage girls and their coaches. It's a nonprofit program that has about 170 members and they love skating. In the series, we meet Tori, Ashley, Adrianna, and Ariyana. Each has a different relationship with skating and different challenges. Let's listen to a clip from Harlem Ice. In this clip, the girls are supposed to connect through synchronized skating. First, you'll hear from their coach.

Coach: With synchronized skating, everything you do is connected by nature. You're literally holding onto someone else, so whatever you do is going to be challenging in that respect.

Now connect, connect, connect.

Speaker 3: We're trying to fix a lot of the parts of the program to make sure we do well in our next competition.

Coach: Give me fierce.

Speaker 3: Everyone is put in a specific spot.

Coach: Ooh, keep going. It's fine.

Speaker 3: For example, for our intersection,-

Coach: Drop. Turn. Let's go do a full.

Speaker 3: - we all have different spots and different holes we go into-

Coach: Push, push, push.

Speaker 3: - and then we transition from our three spoke into a whee, so it's like three separate lines that come in and join.

Coach: Can we please get to where we're supposed to be? 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. No, do it again. Do it again.

Alison Stewart: It isn't easy. Some skaters are going through puberty. They have schoolwork. They have big feelings. Harlem Ice is streaming on Disney Plus starting this Wednesday, February 12th. Director Samantha Knowles joins me now to discuss. Some of you might remember her from her 2021 NAACP Image Award and Independent Spirit Award winning docuseries Black and Missing, which brought attention to forgotten Black and missing persons cases. Samantha, welcome to the show.

Samantha Knowles: Hi, Alison. Thank you so much for having me.

Alison Stewart: Listeners, are you a parent of a figure skater or a former child figure skater? What kind of outlet does the sport provide for young people? How does the activity of skating prepare you for life? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. That's our phone number. You can join us on air or you can text to us at that number, or you can reach out on social media. Maybe you have any memorable moments, insights, or burning questions about youth figure skating, 212-433-WNYC.

Sam, you posted on Instagram that "you don't usually play favorites, but Harlem Ice might be one of the best things I've ever done". Why did you post that?

Samantha Knowles: I think Harlem in so many ways was a series that I had been waiting to make for many, many years. I've done a lot of documentaries about really important topics that are still very resonant today, but really, when I heard about this series, I really jumped at the opportunity to do something that was filled with joy, about kids, and just about this incredible legacy that they have. In the end, the series ended up being something that really was exactly what I wanted in so many ways.

We got to highlight these girls, but we also got to really get creative and have fun, and I think the result is just something that's just this joyous, dance-filled ride.

Alison Stewart: How did you first learn about Figure Skating in Harlem?

Samantha Knowles: I first learned about it when Imagine Entertainment, the production company behind the series, approached me about it. On the surface, it actually sounded like the program I did growing up. I grew up as a dancer, and I was really excited because in a lot of ways, the girls are dancers on ice, and that's something we really highlight. One way that it was really, really different was that this was specifically designed and created for girls of color, and that's something that I didn't have growing up. I grew up in a largely white town, and so in a lot of ways, Figure Skating in Harlem was the program that I always wanted.

I just had this insatiable curiosity about what that looked like and what it looked like to have that sisterhood and that kind of support. I think that's what really drew me from the beginning.

Alison Stewart: What does Figure Skating in Harlem teach these girls who are participating in their programming? Is it skating only? Is it an academic program?I s it both?

Samantha Knowles: What's really interesting about Figure Skating in Harlem is that it's both a skating program and an academic program. It has this really robust academic component. Even within the skating program, there's this larger, more recreational skating, and then there are certain skaters who compete. It's a really robust program. What really underlies a lot of it are these tenets of leadership, sisterhood. Their go-to catchphrase is, when I fall, I get back up. It's really a really well-rounded program. It's a lot more than just competitive skating.

Alison Stewart: There are four women you choose to focus on, and they have a wide range of personalities. I'm going to ask you to think of two or three adjectives to describe each person. Tori.

Samantha Knowles: Oh, man. Tori. Hilarious, bold, and adorable.

Alison Stewart: Ashley.

Samantha Knowles: Oh, man. Ashley. They all Reminded me of myself in so many ways. Ashley is very focused, but just really-- How would I describe Ashley? She's really focused and very careful, but she's also a really amazing and incredible leader.

Alison Stewart: Ariyana.

Samantha Knowles: Ariyana is really lovable. She can be intense, but she's so fiercely determined.

Alison Stewart: Adriana.

Samantha Knowles: Adriana. Oh my gosh. Hilarious. This is not one word, but she's one of those people who takes a minute to warm up to you, but when she does, it's the most amazing thing. She's a perfectionist. Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: It's interesting about Ariyana because she's been skating solo for years, but she's only been with Figure Skating in Harlem for one season, and she's on two different teams. She's really focused. She has dreams of the Olympics, while some of the other girls don't. They just like skating. How does that make the program different for her?

Samantha Knowles: Yes, Adrianna is actually one of those people who was really interesting to follow in the series because I think, because she's new, because she stands out in terms of she loves solo skating, she wants to be an Olympian, she's really somebody through which you can really see the contours of the program really clearly because she stands out so much from that. We latched onto her really early on because you can see through her entire journey everything that this program is about, even sometimes when she rubs up against some of the things that she's learning.

We see her get to skate on Olympic ice for the first time, and we get to see her experience that. We get to see her work on some of her solo moves in Axel. We get to see her learn what sisterhood really is, not just through synchronized skating, which is all about sisterhood at its core, but also through this amazing trip that she gets to go on with her sisters. Adrianna was really-- In a lot of ways, her story is really a through line for the whole series because you can really see everything that the program is about.

Alison Stewart: Many of the competitor, skaters they're working against, they work daily. They work at a rink just made for skating. They have full-time coaches. These are the people that they're competing against. How does the program prepare the girls that they're going to end up against that kind of rigor and, quite frankly, class issues?

Samantha Knowles: Well, that's what's really interesting about the program, is that the girls are up against so much. As you said, a lot of the people that they're skating against have many, many, many, many hours on the ice. The girls skate at Riverbank in Harlem. It's a public rink, it's outdoors, and so that means they have limited ice time. They have to share it not only with the other girls in the program, but also the city at large, and because it's an outdoor rink, it's not accessible in the summer months. They can't practice during those months.

They also have this really beautiful system where they share skates and their skates that they have for the year are passed down throughout the years. There's this really beautiful thing where they're kind of skating in their sister's shoes, but that's also something that's different. They don't have custom skates that are form fitted. They stand out at competitions not just in terms of how they look, but also in terms of those things. What's amazing and what I always have to highlight is that instead of trying to shrink away or to blend in, they unapologetically stand out.

One of our first shoots that we did, actually our very first shoot was a competition in January. It was called Colonials, of all things. The girls go into this competition, they don't look like anybody else, and instead of trying to blend in, they skate to Beyonce. They are unapologetic, and so it's amazing. That was not our first time meeting the girls, but that was really our first time filming with them, and that was our introduction to them. I remember on that shoot I was like, this is going to be an amazing ride if this is the first thing we're seeing about them. They're up against a lot, but they're really incredible.

Alison Stewart: I'm speaking with the writer and director of Harlem Ice. It's a new five-part docuseries that follows the coaches and the girls of Figure Skating in Harlem as they prepare for competitions and performances. It premieres on Wednesday on Disney Plus. We'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It. You are listening to All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Samantha Knowles. She's director of a new docuseries called Harlem Ice. The series follows coaches and girls of Figure Skating in Harlem as they prepare for competitions and performances. It premieres on Wednesday on Disney Plus.

Sam, as you expect, there's a lot of scenes that take place on the ice during their practices, during their performances. What is something interesting about figure skating that you learned while filming?

Samantha Knowles: Well, it's funny because I'm not a skater, so I'm coming from very much an outside perspective, and it gave me this kind of insatiable curiosity about how the skating moves work and everything. Also, I come from a dance background, I'm a documentarian, I'm a storyteller, and so I think I really learned in a lot of ways how to draw out how the girls trying to tackle these synchronized skating moves became part of the storytelling. It had an emotion to it. It had this arc to it.

I think the other thing is that we had our dp, our cameraman, skating on the ice with the girls, and so there really was a kind of choreography in front of the camera, but also behind the camera. It required a lot of coordination. It required a lot of schematics and planning and knowing exactly when we were going to get this particular shot. It was an incredible experience in that way. I've never filmed anything that was this technical and this technically advanced, but it was really exciting in so many ways.

Alison Stewart: Did your cameraman know how to skate?

Samantha Knowles: He did. Yes, he did. He's incredible. He would skate. We had a whole rig. I would be sitting in the bleachers with a monitor and two sets of headphones so I could talk to him and hear the girls. We would rig him up. He would get on the ice with the girls. We'd have to plan ahead to have a sense of what moves they were going to do so we could plan what lens to use and when to switch out the lens, but, yes, he's an incredible skater. If you look at the show, you'll see a lot of it is him skating backwards. That was a really exciting thing to figure out in the show.

Alison Stewart: You were talking about the arc of the story, and this is interesting because during one of the episodes, the girls are having trouble understanding their coach, and she realizes that she really isn't communicating effectively with them. She's like, I'm out. I'm going to go out here, and you guys are going to talk about this amongst yourself and see if you can figure it out. How did their relationships with each other and with their coaches shape the series?

Samantha Knowles: Oh, yes, that was a huge part of the show. I think in a lot of ways, one thing I said I love about that coach is that-- That coach in particular is Ila Epperson. She was also part of the program, and so she really-- and all the coaches really, but Ila really understands the girls, and she understands that experience. She's not that much older than her. She's not that much older than the girls, and she really understands their experience. I think she really had this sense of when to let the girls lead and let them evolve.

What I also love in that scene that you can see is you can see how all of their personalities are at play. You can see that Adrianna, who's very technical and who's very focused, she's the one who's calling out, "Did you guys look at the score?" Ashley's the one who's like, "Guys, shh." She's the leader who's like, okay, let's all get on the same page. I think you can see all of their dynamics at play, and they're learning how to work together and work with all of those things and all of those personalities as a team.

What's amazing is that so often when you're talking about organizations like this, they have these catchphrases like sisterhood and leadership, but we really saw it up close and in front of us, and that became the entire arc of the show. The show also, at the same time, doesn't necessarily follow the traditional sports genre arc. They have a competition, but as the season unfolds, we see a lot of opportunities that the girls are able to get access to, but what undergirds all of that is this sisterhood that really takes them from the beginning right until the very end.

One of my favorite scenes is a great example of that sisterhood at play, so it was definitely an enormous part of the show.

Alison Stewart: The girls who participate in Harlem Ice are beautiful women of color in a sport that's been largely dominated by Eurocentric standards and Eurocentric standards of beauty. How is that handled by the coaches and by the girls?

Samantha Knowles: Well, that is something that's definitely enormously at play. One thing you'll see in the show is that they have a big, I call it a concert because that's how I saw it, but what's called the Ice Show every single year, and the Ice Show is really the moment where they are so encouraged to every part of their performance, costume, hair, even their tights to really be the fullest mode of self expression that they could possibly have, and it's incredible. I call it a concert because that's what it really feels like, and that's creatively, how we depict it in the show.

Also, I always have to say too, the girls also are constantly encouraged to express themselves. It really surprised me in a lot of ways the way that they would express themselves. I remember that there was one moment, one of my favorite moments in the show, when the coaches tell the girls, if you want to have confidence on the ice, just channel your inner alter ego, everybody has one. I asked them, who's your alter ego? People would say, Sasha Fierce. That's a very well known alter ego.

When I asked Tori who her alter ego was, she was like, Aretha Franklin. I was like-- [crosstalk]

Alison Stewart: So good.

Samantha Knowles: I was like, what do you mean? I wasn't expecting that. In the show, you see Tori in our first episode skating to Aretha Franklin. It was so unexpected, but when she does that, you can see, and I love it because I see it every time and I've seen it hundreds of times, you can see her entire personality in that clip. You can see every strength she has. She's a performer. They're all performers, really.

That idea of self expression is really embedded in every part of the program of FSH, even when they're skating to Beyonce at competition, when they're skating to Aretha for our cameras, it really is a huge part, and I think that's really what makes the series everything. It led our creativity. There are a lot of little fun pops. There's a lot of music in the show. There's a lot of fun on-screen graphics. Everything was really led by the girls and their self expression.

Alison Stewart: They have so much confidence.

Samantha Knowles: Oh, yes. That's what I learned from them. I learned about synchronized skating, sure, but to this day, that's what I take away, is channeling each of the girls when I need a dose of confidence.

Alison Stewart: You said that it's not like most documentaries, most sports documentaries that you watch. What's unique about this documentary?

Samantha Knowles: Well, it follows somewhat of a non-traditional kind of narrative arc. I think you go in and you're thinking, "Oh, this is a competition show," and it turns into something even bigger, and it takes you to so many places. It takes you on a very big trip at the end. I think in a lot of ways, I grew up dancing, I love musicals, and we use a lot of music in the show. Disney really encouraged us to play and have fun and use music, and I ripped a lot of songs straight from my playlist.

In some ways, sometimes I'm like, oh, this kind of feels like a musical or a concert movie at certain points. I think it really bends the genre in that sense, and that's what I think is really exciting. I love that ultimately, it is a sports documentary. I've always loved sports documentaries, and what I love about that is that-- because sports are about storytelling, and it's so universal. I think it's different in some ways, but I also love that this is about a sport that they're breaking the glass ceiling, the ice ceiling, so to speak.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] I've been speaking with Samantha Knowles, the director of Harlem Ice, which is screening on Disney Plus starting this Wednesday, February 12th. Hey, Samantha, thanks for celebrating Black History Month with us.

Samantha Knowles: Thank you.

[music]

Alison Stewart: Valentine's Day, it's this Friday. You don't want to break the bank, we're going to talk about budget-friendly date ideas. Stay with us. That's coming up on All Of It right after the news.