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There is a great concern expressed today about the influence of the military industrial complex on the government I'm honored to speak with a man who was a leader in both the Army and business General Omar Bradley General Bradley led our troops in North Africa Sicily and the Normandy invasion during the European campaign he commanded the largest body of American field soldiers ever to serve under one field commander the twelfth United States Army group he was appointed the first chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and went on the unassigned list as a five star general he is now a very active chairman of the board of Boulevard Watch Company General Bradley I'd like to begin by asking you what you feel are the qualities that make a general Great well he must have leadership that's not much of an answer because there are so many things involved in the term leadership a good leader must have certain qualities and. We finally go back and study leadership history we're fine Not only did they have a lot of practice all of those qualities but they had one or more I'm torn ash banning degree for example character integrity knowledge of your profession. Consideration for others teamwork and things such as that and if your study history and you'll find. These great leaders have a will for example Lincoln. Was a great leader he was bragging about a military leader but he was a great leader and one of his most daring characteristics probably was that of human understanding. And humility. Sherman they don't I could mention that down south but Sherman had outstanding mental and physical energy he could get along on a couple of hours' sleep a night for example and the rest of time he was out in the battlefield and working out. Getting information about the enemy and working out his plane. From Time sight. Being a great man for a character everybody admired lead character to have switched to the north now Orthodox. Grant you might say had outstanding qualities of stubbornness you couldn't convention he was wrong what about General Bradley because he's did well and have read allies that. You know about it when you talk about this leadership how is it possible to convince men kill other men it must take a tremendous amount of eloquence or something that's not. It becomes a rather impersonal matter because. You wouldn't shoot someone. Cold blood of course but when it comes to war your training teaches you that you've got to do a certain thing to do it you've got to either killed or drive out the enemy that's in front of you and holding that position it just becomes an impression on people sometimes ask me how can you shoot a fashion but I couldn't shoot a fan on the ground but when he starts to fly or get several out and going back to me it's entirely different proposition I mean you just don't feel it that's the. Fashion For example I think in battle you're training teaches you that this is something you must do as part of that's one of the biggest part of our training to teach people to be in the time comes fears. As well as fearless does ever bother you I mean did this improves analogy of the war stop sometimes when you look at it personally No not after the long period of training I've gone through you don't think so much of trying to keep from killing the other man you try to keep from getting your own man killed Generale Yeah you wrote about the general public he said to him what was not so much an idea as it was this film of the destiny to which he shaped his life I wonder how you look at the War What was it to you. Just one of those things that had to get done I don't think I look back on war the same way Patton dad Patton even as a cadet started to act the part and became a stage for him and. Patton to track a lot of attention by. Various actions. And but we're going to gun treated me to guns from F.S.U. shall we needed any but there's just one of those things to make people realize that here's patently something different and that's the part he played I couldn't play that part I heard a story just yesterday for example somebody version Patton command he came to a bridge that was under artillery fire from the German side and all the traffic backed up they stopped they would go across well he George goes up and gets hold of the flag and he stands up in this truck holding a flag and grabs across the bridge at five miles an hour amid the cheers of everybody and then they all follow him across I thought of the general could go across that way. They would follow another mine admitted I had a similar experience except I didn't have the imagination or maybe. The attitude George had I had the same thing happen to me I came up to Bridget care and thought it was under fire and the trucks were backed up for a couple of mouse never afraid to cross with it under fire show I don't up and drove on across and went on my way and immediately they started to fall of man and Except they were in a much bigger hurry than I had been and I before had gone more than a couple of miles about half of those trucks had passed me at fifty miles an hour which was considerably above the speed limit but they were getting out of there. And I mean it's just two different ways of doing the same thing and maybe a patent way was better I don't know he made a show of it. Holding a flag and standing up going on across a five miles an hour is a different that's my let's see. What would you say the ingredients of courage what makes a man brave and a man a man who can cover up the fact that he is scared I think we're all afraid. I have a theory that every person has a breaking point and so Momar below breaking point and we call them cowards Some have high breaking points and we say they're brave there are a lot of in-between and I think everyone has a breaking point and we hope our breaking point is high I've been scared to death in combat but I the big point is not to show it I remember one time you know Harmon and I were sitting or standing in a wide open place in North Africa or the North Koreans you know and I was going over a map on a blackboard. And a German artillery fire guard for a national place and everybody else ran and jumped in the foxhole and I tried to shut it down but he and I through the Conover mouse and we wish we could do that too but we can show we can stand there and kept on talking forcefully we weren't hit but But what the fact that we were who aren't scared yes we just couldn't show it because we were the senior officers we were actually in a position of of shooting at the enemy you personally you weren't where you were just being shot at what do you know the time Ira shot at the enemy was with the strike change can. Go When I entered was this actually you have never been responsible for killing a man you know that must feel good doesn't yes yes and of course I'm glad I didn't have to but I wouldn't hesitate it if you had after you what does this make you think about mankind this is a very general question but it seems so amazing to somebody such as myself has never seen war that men can actually be led in the position of just killing each other and you know for what really I understand when you're in the in the trenches for defenses for your country but does it make you suspect the rationality of man or we have lost respect to have. Wars a useless waste. But if somebody else the tires were on you and it's a question of threatening your freedom you're going to fight and then it becomes like what you're talking about becomes an act of survival if you don't get that man first you get YOU ARE sometimes it comes to close combat. And it is maybe a little more personal if you're ten feet away but it's question of survival you need to get him first or he get you and that is you know that's one of our strongest instinct for self-preservation with this sort of an emotional impact on you seeing this kind of destruction and waste of human life to it and you know learn to think and I can say that it did because you know all my training had prepared me for this sort of thing if it became necessary so that's what discipline is to yeah this is one of those I JUST WANT TO aspect of this point John about the I'd like to talk a bit with hindsight were there any overall mistakes that you think should have been done differently in various campaigns you lead with a significant area errors of judgment. I don't think so as a matter of fact. We were always taking some action you look back on it you can say well we could have done a different way but the answer is you succeeded and it's pretty hard to question success. Maybe some other way would have done it quicker cheaper. But you're after remember that a certain amount of your actions are taken without complete information and we study history now you for example you read the longest day or the author has gone around and interviewed all these people now we know what was taking place on the other side we didn't then. You have to operate or a certain extent in a fog if you had one hundred percent accurate information you might do it a little differently but not having that we usually act on the enemy's capabilities rather than his intentions it's a big difference if you try to guess what the other man's going to do and guess wrong you may be in trouble but if you have a pretty good idea what he can do what his capabilities are and take your action to show that you're more apt to be successful it may not be the best way maybe your guess would have been right for supporting a guest and been wrong. What is the battle that that you're most proud of is it the mousetrap Valley No I think the. The. Operation to break out of French was probably in fact that was a decisive battle of the war. And we want to broke out the German should have quit I was glad they didn't because that we would have had the same thing again because that's what happened and World War One we did not finish the job and had they surrendered then and before we ever got into Germany and impressed on the German people that they must start a thing like this if we might have a do over again the end result would have probably been a unified Germany today. And that we would be better off but then we might have to fight it over again but that was rated a decisive battle probably one of the most satisfying phases Well actually operation after the Battle of the bulge when we crossed Iran with three armies and with perfect timing between them. When shall fast and to Germany and that is hard to describe but for example I held up the first army in the middle after they got across the bridge at her Mog and. I held them up because I did not want one army advancing and subjecting themselves to play attacks and so on that they were held there expanding about a thousand yards a day to keep the Germans from mining the men and then we waited until we could get passing across town at the bottom and government car washed up at the top above the river area and then we all started together and we'd shore round groups and kind of capture prisoners and make another insurer home and caption for example we got about three hundred sixty five thousand prisoners in the Ruhr area we didn't go into it directly you know we should round it first and then attack and work from all directions was the caliber of the German generals with a excellent and I think they were very good the best man we had on their side was Hitler who usually countermand of the German general daughters and he was usually wrong the beginning of the war in Poland and so on he overruled his general and worked out all right but when we got into it taking french his. Overruling as General George very helpful to us for example when we broke out it sent a little weak Specter the Germans to fall back and take up a new position behind a sane. Consolidated position and when we had another fight to cross saying he didn't do that he ordered a counter to act and we should round. I don't like one thousand German divisions and frankly destroyed them got most of their equipment. And. Killed a great many of them captured a lot of them but he had the art of those people back behind the sane we'd had a big fight again as it was we want always cross France to the German forward us nanny and he would order them to hold a certain place at all costs they were back well in German the American drafty there well hold another place and time to get that back Americans are already there we were moving very fast around their flanks. But he just wouldn't admit that he ordered all the towns on the coast to be held to the end which meant that he'd get twenty or thirty thousand Germans sure rounded there and eventually we'd take them we'd go on by didn't hold a ship and he would just drop off enough to contain them and it would go on and eventually that after surrender we got something I thirty thousand prediction sure brig and that it briskly had a big group of prisoners and. General places along the coast of France we surrounded by passion and later captured him so he lost an awful lot of troop by getting him sure rounded and captured by his holding what is your feeling about the about given the nuclear and now. I don't have any particular feeling of it. I doubt if. We should have strategic. Atomic and hydrogen weapons I think probably all of our allies should have tactical atomic weapons because I don't foresee any. Real important battle going on for survival without using tactical atomic weapons because they're so much more effective than the ordinary high explosives do you foresee a battle going on and I hope not. It may be that we've gotten to the point now where war is so destructive that no one would dare stop or. Start one. It's always you know said You know Jim Wallace said that was the thing that would keep boys from happening. Some people think the next war if we have want to be over in a few days I don't share that theory either. I thought. Well all those lines before World War two I thought weapon just gotten so big and destructive for example we're big bombers that we just couldn't fight a war a month or two maybe that had not happened you destroy cities and they go underneath they rebuilt. And. Much as I hope we never have an atomic war actually that might not end quickly supposing that Russia loosed all their weapons on ash the same time we loosed all of ours on them with very complete destruction I don't know of any case and a real serious war or they've already been and adik ship by one nation imposing its will physically on the other one. You've got to go in there finally with an Army infantry and so on and assume can complete authority and control over the their country if Russia if you didn't. Loose all their bombs on us and we should loose all of our power on them with the very great destruction in both countries. Why would we quit because they couldn't come over and make us quit how could we make them quit we'd keep shooting each other we shot up all of our bombs and then who's going to keep us from making some more and shooting one next month or the year after. I just would think instead of ending and I fear days I think might last thirty years before one got strong enough to actually make the other one admit he was wrong and quit if yes there was anything left. And of course after all that time be Pracon nothing left do you what do you think are the prospects of this happening you have any feeling about what is peace I just don't think it'll happen if we stay strong as long as each side has that capability have complete destruction of the other I don't think the Russians are going to start a war but I do feel that if we should let down or they should get well ahead of us and be able to destroy us and keep us from destroying them then there might be danger. Were you did about the at the end of the war that the threat that the Russians would pose was this we excessively naive or was there no when I would say we were suspicious but. Probably naive to become a nation after all we've been allies. And we still had a war to fight with Japan did you object at the time to the division of Berlin into this B.S.. Not officially I was in a position to object to a course that was a decision made politically before we ever crossed Arayan Yes and you had you had we had nothing to say about I. How did you feel you know about it when you concerned about the least expense of life in each battle about dropping the bomb on Hiroshima. I think I felt pretty much as the other military leaders did at that time when we were contemplating a an invasion of the Japanese mainland their home land the big out in Tokyo just south. And I remember discussing the dental plans before I went to the Veterans Administration and their estimate was that we would probably suffer a million casualties killed and wounded in that operation if you have to make a decision between dropping one bomb and killing somebody else are sacrificing a million of your own people you can see why I had made it couldn't have been done differently because they given more warning to the population it would probably have destroyed some of the effect. Of the bomb this was something new and it gave them a good excuse to quit now we know now that they were in hard straits. Probably another case if we had known at that time what we know now it might not have been necessary but we didn't know that weak spectra dilution actually a million casualties on the beaches and landings into Japan. And they have we have reason to believe that. Look at their. Planes used to fly and ours kamikaze plane just. Giving their life for Japan was great glory for them we figured they'd fight to the last man this way we give their government a good excuse to quit and you can argue both. But I've always felt that if I had been in the president's position and had to make that decision not to made it the same way he did to create a brave decision he made. And a great one far reaching one because it not only affected in the end war with Japan but effects our future or it has made such an imprint on the minds of men that they're not likely to start again with atomic war three. I think it may well be one of the detention I can't see this business. Sobbing over their lives that we lost maybe maybe I should but after all that war which it is a question of killing certain Japanese already taking big losses are shelf that time there wasn't too much love lost between Japanese nationals act the way they treated our prisoners in the Philippines and show on we know that's a military sure but we had to make that military. Realize that. We had all this power to stop General Bradley. I know that. Former President Eisenhower made a speech saying that he was very concerned about the military industrial complex having sets of influence over the government you've been closely involved with both military and business do you feel this is a threat you know I do not trade I must disagree with the President Eisenhower and I have. There's too much competition too many companies competing for government business and there's such control and government that I don't see how they can be influenced too much by industry. Do you do you find that there is so much that the public cannot know because of security risks that vast amounts of money and therefore power are being handled without any checks by the public itself does this concern you was this just a mess where LAX actually there's very little being spent that isn't known during World War two Of course the Manhattan project under which we developed the Tomic bomb was kept very secret only a few people on the Hill that is saying that the congressman knew what this money was for but the rest of them had enough confidence than original growth General Marshall and these few leaders or did know is about to go ahead an appropriate something like two billion dollars to get it done but under peacetime there may be. Some secret channeled up and development so forth but I don't think the pre-term and of equipment offers any problem at all because they all know that the my Congress asked appropriate the money for it they may give Mr Webb for example and to NASA. National Aeronautics and Space Administration they may give him a big budget without making him spell out exactly what they said because some of that maybe she could but they have a general idea of what he's trying to do to go to the moon for example our launch satellites that are getting certain information they know in general what that is but I would say that through the General Accounting Office. And the appropriation bills appropriation committees. There's very little secrecy on but these things are spent for shoon efforts down anyway there's not this great plot of. What's going on it sounds like. So looking at the armed forces now as they are you think you would choose your career as a young man. Well let's say I don't regret in any way and never have my going into the service I had a very interesting career I was able to share my country in a satisfying way. My whole life has been a very satisfying sure mission when you ask me whether I would do it over again. I'm not sure I can answer it there are a lot of advantages of being in the service. Satisfaction of sharing your country in a very in the best way you can. Helping prevent war by preparedness on the other hand life in the service is not what it was when I was coming up to the grades for example now something I can third of the officers are on foreign service all the time many have been places they cannot take their families and. The pay differential instead of being somewhat favorable like it was when I was second attended I got pretty good pay compared to other professions but now it's much less than you can get somewhere else to take these kids coming out of school. They get a much better starting salary with industry than you can get as a second lieutenant in the service and their promotion is much faster pay less I mean so it's it's hard to try to convention youngster video to go in the service often said if you had enough money service should be a nice job but you have to struggle along on much less pay than your Sheehan contemporaries and it's not as attractive as it used to be have must admit the same time a certain satisfaction to being in it you know about the I want to thank you so much for this interview which really been about you in a place yourself.