Alison: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC studios in SoHo. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. Whether you're listening on the radio, live streaming, or on demand, I am grateful you are here. On today's show, we'll talk with podiatrist and artist, yes, you heard me right, Don Hershman. He's a new solo show at the Salomon Arts Gallery in Tribeca. We'll talk about the new film Story Ave with its director and lead actor and we'll speak with writer Jonathan Lethem about his latest novel, Brooklyn Crime Story. That's the plan, so let's get this started with New York City's high school admissions process.

This week, New York City's notoriously complicated process of applying to public high schools opened. This means parents and students will be researching, touring, and applying to one of the some 400 schools in the five boroughs. That's 400. The process has changed repeatedly over the years. Some year's grades and test scores are not taken into account. Some schools have added or dropped screens as an eligibility requirements like tests or grades, while others request additional materials like essays. It can be overwhelming and parents can often feel like they are all alone.

That's why we're here and that's why we here at All Of It, where some members of the team have been through this as parents, want to jump in and provide a little helping hand because knowledge, as they say, is power. To help with the dates, deadlines, changes, and ways to make the experience a little less overwhelming, we've enlisted some help. Julian Shen-Berro is a reporter for the education website Chalkbeat. Julian, thanks for being here.

Julian: Thanks for having me.

Alison: Elissa Stein, who runs a consultancy agency called HS411.

Elissa: High School 411.

Alison: High School 411 that helps parents navigate the process of applying. Elissa, thank you so much for coming to the studio.

Elissa: Thank you so much for doing this for families.

Alison: Listeners, are you going through the process? What questions do you have? Maybe you've gone through it and you can provide some advice or guidance for parents doing this for the first time. Did your kid get into a high school that they didn't expect to go to and it worked out? What are some of the things you wish you knew going into the high school application process? Share your advice and stories with us, 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. You can join us on air if you call in or you can text us at that number if that's more convenient, and of course, our social media is always available @allofitwnyc.

Elissa, let's start with a few nuts and bolts. What does getting into high school entail in New York City that is different from most places? When I talk to friends who live in other places and I told them about the process, they say, "What? Doesn't he go to high school near where you live?"

Elissa: Right, and that's what most people expect but the New York City, it's more like the college process. There are a lot of options out there. It doesn't mean that all those options are the right fit for your kid. I say to families, always go through this process looking through the lens of your child. There's a lot of information. There's a lot of hearsay. There are a lot of people out there with different opinions. Think about what's best fit for your kid. That's the thing that should be your driving force but there are all different kinds of schools. There are different application methods. There are different priority groups.

It's a lot of information to take in in a short period of time. It's October and applications are due at the beginning of December so parents have this crash course of learning how things work while researching schools and finding good fits. Then as you mentioned, if there's testing to be done or additional materials, making sure you'd have time in your schedule to give your kid the best opportunity to do as well as they can on those pieces.

Alison: Julian, when we say the process opened October 3rd, what does that actually mean?

Julian: Families can now access their applications in their MySchools account and they'll be able to start this process of paring down the hundreds of schools that are here in New York City and looking for the right fit for their kid. That is open now to them online and they can be able to access information about school tours, start kind of looking through that, and starting this process that will take several weeks to complete about two months.

Alison: Julian, what are some of the important deadlines parents need to know?

Julian: Yes. Like mentioned, it opened this week and so applications will be open until December 1st, so families will need to submit their applications by then. That gives them a little under two months now to do that process. The same day applications opened, registration opened as well for the Specialized High Schools Admissions Test so if your family is considering those eight very specialized prestigious high schools, they'll need to register for that test by October 27th. Then decisions should come out around March, so there'll be a few months after submitting before they hear back about where they landed.

Alison: Before I move on from deadlines, Elissa, is there anything you wanted to add about the deadlines that you think people should know or understand about the deadlines?

Elissa: Yes, you don't have to apply to the SHSA schools immediately. When you register for them, you're going to be registering in order of preference the schools that you want. That's a big change for families. It used to be that kids--

Alison: Can you explain that for folks?

Elissa: Sure. It used to be that when you took the SHSAT, kids would go test day and rank their schools on the test itself. That changed a couple of years ago so now you register for the test and you rank your schools in order of preference when you register. Tours haven't happened yet so a lot of parents are panicking, "Oh my gosh, I'm registering but I haven't seen anything yet." You don't have to do it today. Wait until you go to the open houses if you want to and start then making educated guesses. As long as you're done by the 27th and you get your registration in, you're fine.

There's no need to have to rush into this and jump ahead of the game until you are sure you've seen the things you want to and you're happy with your decisions.

Alison: How do parents find out about open houses?

Elissa: That's a great question. Every school host open house has the information on their websites. There's also an upcoming events in MySchools which is a helpful tool, but keep in mind, not every school reports that information. If you don't see a school posted in MySchools, it doesn't mean something's not happening. Always double-check the school's website to be sure that things are happening the way that it's shared that it's happening.

Alison: Julian, I'm going real nuts and bolts here. We keep saying MySchools. What is MySchools?

Julian: Yes, MySchools is an online site where parents have accounts. It's maintained by the city and it has a lot of helpful information. I believe it's myschools.nyc and they can go there and access information about their application. They can look at information about different schools in the city and they'll-- A lot of centralized information happens there for families who are navigating the process or families who are in New York City schools.

Alison: Elissa told us one of the things that has changed so far this year, that's new this year. What else has changed this year that people should be aware of?

Julian: Yes. I think there have been some notable changes in recent years. New York City's high school admissions have changed a lot during the pandemic, particularly among the more selective high schools. For many years, academically screened programs had some wide discretion to choose their own admissions criteria. They were able to use a mix of test scores, grades, attendance, other factors but in recent years, it's become more standardized with a lot of the screened schools in the city operating under the same set of rules.

This year, much like last year, students will be sorted into four different priority groups if they're applying to these academically screened schools based on their seventh-grade GPAs and course subjects. That will be used to figure out the seats as well as the random application number that is assigned to all applicants. Other than that, the system this year will operate largely similar to last year. There are hundreds of schools in the city and all of them will use different admissions methods. Some schools use open admissions, where it's primarily based on that random application number.

And other schools have criteria like essays, like auditions, things like that, that help further make determinations between students. It will be pretty similar to last year, but even though it is going to be similar to last year, there also will be a lot of families who are encountering it for the first time. There will also be families who might have applied prior to the pandemic using a different system and will have to relearn how it works this year.

Alison: Those tiers, these groups, Elissa, what's important to understand about these groups? Because I've heard a lot of people talking about it and freaking out a little bit about it.

Elissa: That's a really valid question. This only applies to a subset of schools so different admissions methods. Some don't take grades into account whatsoever but for screened schools, they're taking those four grades, as was just said, there's four core grades and kids are sorted into groups based on that grade. The cutoff for group one for this year is a 94. If you have a 94 and above, you're placed into group one for those screened groups but then grades don't count anymore. Once you're in a group, the only thing that counts towards your ranking is your random lottery number.

You can be in group one and have a not-great lottery number and so that can change the way that you think about applying. I think that there's a part of this that makes it more helpful for families. There's more transparency so if you have this data going in, it can help you make informed choices along the way.

Alison: My guests are Julian Shen-Berro from Chalkbeat, and Elissa Stein. We are talking about high school admissions one on one. The process opened this week. Listeners, if you're going through the process, what questions do you have? Or if you've gone through it and you can provide some advice for parents doing this the first time, did your kid get into a high school they didn't expect to and it worked out? Or what's something you wish you knew going into this process? 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. We've got a question. I'll give it to you, Elissa. How many acceptances can you get between the SHSAT and screened?

Elissa: You can get two. When you take the SHSAT, you can get one offer and in the main round, you can get one offer. That's it. You can list up to 12 schools on your main round application, you'll only get one offer. It's a nice thing at the end of the day to be able to pick and choose which is going to be the best fit for your kid.

Alison: Someone texted in, "Don't put any school on your list that you would not want your kid or your kid would not want to attend. My kids only put three schools on their list, they were happy and got into a school where they thrived."

Elissa: I would say in previous years, that would have made a lot of sense but there's a lot more randomness in the process now because of these random lottery numbers. The less schools you have on your application, the less opportunity there is to be a match. It's a big computer system that matches kids. You can have the opportunity to put 12 schools on your list. If your kid isn't matched, then the Department of Education assigns you to a school.

To me, as a person who works with a lot of families and a parent who has been through this as well, you want to give your kids the most opportunity that they have to match to a school that you've at least checked out, done some research about, and feel comfortable with them being at.

Alison: I was going to ask Julian, what if someone is just not going to engage with this? They just check out what happens. I know that sounds radical, but I'm sure there are people who decide to just not engage.

Julian: That's a great question. I know there are opportunities and there are other kind of admissions processes that happen later in the year. We're talking about the New York City public DOE schools here. I think that for families who might choose to go through other processes later in the year, there are options with charter and private schools, but I believe there are also some situations in place for families who don't go through the process on the deadlines, but Elissa might have some more information about that.

Alison: What about people who just don't really--

Elissa: Who just throw their hands up in the air-

Alison: Yes, pretty much.

Elissa: -and say, "This isn't for me."

Alison: Yes.

Elissa: Then your kid is assigned to a school. Your kid is assigned to a school that doesn't have enough applicants per seat. That's a key thing to think about in this process is looking at applicants per seat. All this information is available in MySchools. You can go to a school's page and look and see. What that does is basically tells you how popular a school is. If a school has 50 applicants per seat, that means a lot of kids are looking and considering that school. If a school has two applicants per seat, your opportunity to get in is better because not as many people are competing for those spots.

There are some schools that have zero applicants per seat. There aren't enough students to fill those seats. If your kid doesn't get matched to a school in their application or if you choose not to participate, that's where your child will end up, in a school that doesn't have seats filled and you know nothing about it. That's why, I think, it's really important to do the research now. There's time, there are tours, there are websites you can check out, check out InsideSchools which is a great source of information as well, to really start putting together a comprehensive list that has aspirational schools.

But also schools that are more of a safety net so that if you don't get matched to a school higher on your list, at least there's an opportunity to get a match at a place that you've considered.

Alison: It might be human nature to look at a school that says, "Oh, there's only three people per seat versus 50 people per seat. Maybe that school is not so good." That would be human nature to think that. Is that right? Is that biases? It's an unpopular question, but I have to ask it.

Elissa: No, it's a totally valid question. There's a part of this process that's very much like college and Ivy League schools, where there are a bunch of schools that everybody's heard of, and everybody thinks that they want to go to and it's not attainable for everyone. It doesn't mean that there aren't so many valid options out there. Everybody's not going to go to Harvard. City schools are very much like that. There are a few handful of schools that everybody's heard of and everybody wants to go to but there are plenty of others that just aren't on people's radars.

It doesn't mean that they're not strong, it doesn't mean that they don't have focuses that might be better for your kid. There's some kids who are interested in culinary arts or in aerodynamics. There's so many more focused schools as well, that if parents broaden their horizons, and think about, again, looking at what's best for their child, there are places out there, it's just not necessarily on the radar of everybody yet.

Alison: It's also good I just think anecdotally to expand who you're talking to about it because certain schools feed certain schools.

Elissa: Yes.

Alison: And there's all the parents like, "Oh, this district, we go to this school." As opposed to if you talk to someone else, she might find a school that maybe close to you that you don't realize the possibility.

Elissa: Absolutely. Part of COVID was that we lost a lot of things like district priority. It used to be in certain parts of the city, you would know that your kids would go because they had an advantage and that's been taken away. That's really forcing families to look and broaden the parameters of their searches. There are places out there, it's just going to take a little bit more time and research. You can do that in MySchools too. You can search by extracurricular, by sports, by language, by neighborhood, by admissions method. There are more tools out there for families to advocate for their kids to help find better fits.

Alison: Julian, every year, there seems to be an attempt to make this process more equitable, meaning make the process accessible for students of all incomes, languages, abilities, in an already difficult segregated system. What are you hearing from parents? Does it feel like any progress has been made?

Julian: Yes, that's a great question. I think that equity and equitable admissions is something that people are always concerned about here in New York City. We are one of the most segregated school systems in the country and so it has been something that's been a challenge that various administrations have tried to tackle. Especially when the process like we've been mentioning can be very time-consuming, it can be confusing, it can feel as though families with more time to devote to the process, more resources can have an advantage when going through it.

While there aren't necessarily major changes happening to the process this year from that perspective, we do know that some of the changes that have occurred in recent years have been favored by immigration advocates that we've spoken to. Things like removing state test scores from the application process but I wouldn't say that families necessarily agree on some of those changes. There are a lot of families who also want to bring back test scores into the process and feel that grades might be too subjective a measure to use. There are these debates and discussions happening constantly among families, among parent leaders, among various members of the city.

Some of the things that are continuing this year that have sought to make the process more equitable, some of the city's selective schools participate in a diversity initiative, which sets aside seats for students who might come from low-income backgrounds, might be learning English as a new language, who might be living in temporary housing. Those seats will go to students within the same priority group system, but it'll fill up in priority group one with students who qualify for that initiative, before moving on to the second group and only pool students from those pools.

Schools across the city also have a similar system for students with disabilities where they will set aside seats for students with disabilities and then fill those seats for students specifically with disabilities, whether that's a selective school or not. There are systems in place that try to make the process more equitable and there are organizations out there that seek to help families who might struggle with this. I know the Department of Education also has online virtual sessions in different languages to help families who might not speak English, navigate this process.

There's a lot of work happening. There's also a lot of concerns from parents on both ends of the spectrum about how the city is approaching this and what kind of strides they've been making or not making to address this.

Alison: Let's talk to Monica calling in from Queens. Hi, Monica. Thanks for calling All of It.

Monic: Hi, Alison, how are you? I just wanted to correct one thing that you said about offers. Yes, you can get your main offer and your specialized high school offer but I know people who've gotten also multiple offers from LaGuardia. LaGuardia is a completely separate thing. Then also, I do have some advice for people is to try for everything. That's what we did with my child. He's already a sophomore in high school. We made him do everything. We made him do a portfolio. He did a drama addition. He did a vocal audition. He took the specialized high school tests.

I think the best approach is to just throw everything out there and see what lands. That's my advice for people. I know people who complained and they were really sad that their kid didn't get anything and I was like, "But your daughter does dance. Why did you not have your daughter do a dance audition?" I think that's the best approach. I think it's good to have an idea of what you want but I think it's also good to take the approach to try for everything.

Alison: Monica, thank you for calling in. She brought in the other series of specialized schools.

Elissa: They're the eighth testing schools. That's only the SHSAT and thank you so much, Monica. LaGuardia is a completely separate. It's a performance art based school. They have a bunch of disciplines as well and you can get offered to more than one. They call that the triple threat. At the end of the day, you have LaGuardia offers, you have a specialized high school offer, and you also have a mainland offer.

Alison: My guests are Julian Shen-Berro from Chalkbeat and Elissa Stein from High School 411. She's an expert on this subject of public high school admissions. Our phone lines are filling up. We've got a ton of texts. We need to take a quick break and we'll get to more after this. This is All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We are talking about high school admissions with Julian Shen-Berro and Elissa Stein. Julian is a reporter for Chalkbeat and Elissa runs High School 411. Elissa, when we decided to do this segment, we had a big conversation about not wanting to feed the anxiety machine. That was a big part of this.

We want to get people information, not just-- everybody's anxious already. We were chatting in the break and you made an interesting point that what Monica described as a wide net worked for Monica, but there are some situations for some families that's not a good idea, right?

Elissa: Absolutely. There are so many different kinds of schools out there, but not every school is the right fit for every child. There's an amazing harbor school out in Governors Island.

Alison: Oh, that's great.

Elissa: Which is a wonderful place. The facilities are amazing. For kids who love marine biology, that's an amazing choice, but not every kid loves marine biology. Even though the school is great and the reputation is great, it doesn't mean that you want to put your kid in a place where they're not going to thrive. If your kid loves to play piano, amazing. If your kid plays piano and doesn't want to spend five days a week in school playing piano, perhaps a performance-based program isn't the right fit. Sometimes something that is a passion isn't something that you necessarily want to focus on five days a week in school.

Alison: Someone is asking you, Elissa, can you discuss strategy. I'm wondering how should we pursue our favorites. My son is in group one but doesn't have a strong lottery number.

Elissa: I think that the most important part of this is that you really think about how many applicants per seat there are. If there's a school that's highly desirable, tons of applicants per seat, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be aspirational with some of your choices. Yes, have schools if you fall in love with something, and I always tell families don't fall in love with only one place. There are lots of options out there, but put it on your application, but don't fill it up. Don't have the top seven spots on your application. These schools that are so highly desirable that there's not necessarily a great chance.

Broaden your horizons in terms of looking beyond screen schools, educational option. Ed ops schools, they look at admissions differently. Every classroom is built with a tier of low, middle, and high-performing students. They're generally less applicants per seat. Start putting those on your application as well. Having a mix of admissions method, if your kid is interested in performing arts, those can be great options as well. Really, when you're strategizing about this, yes, you'll go for the moon, but also temper that with safety net schools to make sure that your kid has a really strong chance of getting a match along the way.

Alison: Julian, a question I think you might be able to help us out with. What happens if all DIA seats aren't filled? Do they go to general applicants diversity admission seats?

Julian: That's a great question. I'm actually not too sure on that. That's something I would need to-- I don't want to speak without that information in front of me, so I'm not sure what would happen like this.

Alison: Elissa, you can chime in.

Elissa: I can. Last year, late in the season, the DOE said that diversity and admissions seats are a concrete set aside. For example, if the school fills up on the gen ed side with with group one kids and there aren't enough DIA kids in group one, they will go to group two, they will go to group three. Those seats in the past had reverted back to the general pool, but going forward, they're not going to.

Alison: Someone has texted, "Bless you for this segment. Just beginning high school admissions process for our eighth grader and prepping to begin the middle school application process for our fifth grader." I think that was harder. This segment has been so helpful in reviewing information and clarifying questions around screening groups. What are some of the common questions that you get from parents? I have my Journalism 101 questions, but I'm interested when parents come to you with that look in their eyes.

Elissa: It's right. This is a really, really challenging week because people got these lottery numbers, and so some people are ecstatic and some people are distraught. It's part of the process. The thing is that it always was part of the process. We just didn't know it. Every kid always had a random lottery number. The DOE just didn't share that information. I think that people used to apply without being able to make as informed decisions as they can now.

Now, you've got more data, you've got a screen group, you've got a lottery number, you get the information about how many applicants are per seat, and so you can make more informed choices based on the information that you have on hand. It used to just be much more sort of generic and out there, and you didn't know where you stood. Now, families have a better sense of where they stand. It may not be 100% where you want to be standing, but at least you've got a place to start and then you can start your search from there.

Just know that every kid is going to find a school, and every school is going to have pluses and some minuses, and that this is high school and these are teenagers, and this is part of their educational journey. In large part, this experience is going to inform next steps. Being in a perfect school right now, there is no perfect school. There is no perfect school. You find a place where they're going to thrive and be able to do well and grow as a human being. Then this will be a set of their experiences that they'll carry with them for the rest of their life.

But in New York City, we've been conditioned that high school is everything and it's not. It's just part of growing up. We just do things a little bit differently here.

Alison: Let's talk to Bonnie from Bayside. Hi, Bonnie. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Bonnie: Hi, thank you for taking my call. This is more to the, "Now, how do I decide?" I was a high school guidance counselor and an assistant principal in a CTE school. One of the things I would strongly, strongly, strongly suggest after they've gone through all of the academics and all of the wonderfulness, is let your child go on public transportation and do the commute in rush hour back and forth.

Elissa: That's great advice. That's great advice. I also--

Bonnie: I cannot tell you, and I'll tell you a fun family story. My niece lived on Staten Island and she applied to LaGuardia and she was admitted. I said to her, "How long will it take you to get there?" After she walked to the bus that took her to the train, that took her to the ferry, that took her to the subway, that took her to the station, that took her to the walk, and then she had to stay after school for rehearsals and everything else. She said, "Ah." I said, "When are you going to do your homework? Or when are you going to sleep?"

Alison: Bonnie, some good dropping, some good advice, some good solid advice.

Elissa: That is some great advice. I think that that quality of life piece is something that families need to take into consideration. Absolutely. What's the start time at a school? How far do you have to commute? How far a walk is it from the subway or the bus? Are there extracurriculars that your kid is going to enjoy? If your kid is so into sports, is that something that they can do when they're at school? It's the academics, but it's also those other pieces that are going to make their high school experience really valuable and viable.

Alison: Julian, someone wants to know, how do I know if I have a good or bad or random lottery number? What's a good number and what's a bad number?

Julian: The lottery number can be a little bit tricky to decipher at first. Look, it's this very long string of numbers and letters. I believe the way the DOE systemize it is that it's a zero to nine and then an A to F. When you're reading that number, it goes in that order. In terms of a higher number might be a 0B versus a B0 and so on. It's a little bit tricky to decipher. They have some information online, on their website about that. You can see it generally follows that string, but yes, don't be alarmed when you see it. It does look like a very long, weird string of numbers and letters.

Alison: What should people know about that long, weird string of numbers and letters?

Elissa: Look at the first two digits, the first two digits we're going to give you a sense of where you'll fall out into things, and the rest is extra icing on the cake. For that, you'll be able to figure out, and there are online percentage charts that you can see. If you have like a 00, you're in the top 1%. If you have an FF, you're in the bottom. Then everybody is going to fall out somewhere along those lines.

Alison: Barbara is calling in from Brooklyn and is a parent of an eighth grader. Hi, Barbara, Thanks for calling in.

Barbara: Hi, thank you so much for doing this. That's the first thing I want to say. The second thing is, I have an equity question because not all schools are built the same. In New York, high school is everything because what high school you-- it's a trajectory thing in my mind's eye. If you are not in a high school that's performing well, the likelihood of you getting into a decent college, in my mind's eye, is minimized.

I understand that this is a whole lottery system, but I don't have 12 choices and I'm not going to settle for a school I don't want my kid to go to or a school that my child doesn't want to go to because she already knows where she wants to go. We have an idea of the quality of school that we want her to go to. How do we balance that all out? I hate to sound anxious, but I start to feel anxious.

Alison: I can hear it in your voice. You want to know what is the fewest number of high schools a parent can put on her list. If Barbara and her family really only have four, but they're supposed to do 12, what do you do?

Elissa: No, I hear that. Barbara, first, I want to say that there's a different way of looking at things. You can go to a super high-performing school and then your kid is in the middle or the bottom. That affects college choices, or you can be a bigger fish in a smaller pond and go to school that maybe isn't as academically high performing, but your kid really stands out and there's time for extracurriculars and all the pieces that help in the college process. That's one way to think about it. My son was at Brooklyn Tech and at his top choice, there were 75 applicants.

Even though he was a really valuable and viable candidate for that, he didn't stand a chance of getting in. I didn't mean that he didn't go to a wonderful college that was a good fit for him. That's something to keep in mind as well. I hear you too, about wanting to make sure that the school that you're happy with, but again, the way that the system works right now if you're not matched to something on your application, you're assigned to a school, you're assigned to a school that doesn't have enough students in it.

When there aren't enough students in a school, there's less funding. Every student comes with a budget, so there's not enough money. There might be less teachers, there could be a real loss in terms of AP classes. Just dig a little deeper, dig a little deeper, look for neighborhood schools, look for things your child might be interested in, but do your best to bump your list up some more because that just gives them a better chance of getting into a school. Again, better that it's one that you've checked out than one that you're just thrown into.

Alison: Julian, with text says, "The system is basically unfair. I successfully got two kids into their competitive first choices because I had the time and resources to invest in the essay. Also, some of the essay screen schools are great way to get around a terrible lottery number, but again, it takes time and work. Are there aides? Are there guides for families where parents English might not be spoken by the parents, or they don't have access to computers? We keep saying, jump on my schools. They don't have access to technology. What kind of outlets or accommodations are for people who don't have the time, money, energy to do this?"

Julian: Yes, that's a very valid concern and something that we hear from a lot of parents like the one who just reached out who do have the resources. Even there is a sense among some people who are able to go through this process devote a lot of time to it and ultimately find a school for their child that they're very happy with, that still feel a little bit bad about going through that and feeling like it was unfair that they had that opportunity and knowing a lot of families don't have that.

I think some of the things that families can try to do. There are organizations out there that are working to help with integration efforts. There are programs that operate at schools through community organizations to help those schools. The students at those schools for free with admissions counseling and help. On top of that, I think for a lot of schools, the counselor at your middle school might be a good resource. Somebody who's there in your school system already who you can go to with some questions about the process.

The DOE again has some resources for families that comes in different languages that specifically works to help with families who might not speak English who might struggle with the English and that component of it. Those materials are available and out there. I think something families can tap into as well is their local community networks. Parents can try and work together with other families. Especially if they're thinking about navigating so many different schools in a relatively condensed timeline.

They can try to help each other out and sort of team up to split up and cover more ground in that way. I think there are resources out there. I would say for families who aren't sure exactly where to go, a place to start could be with your school counselor at your middle school.

Alison: We've got a text that says, "I encourage families to join the applying to high school in New York City Facebook group. It was a lifesaver. 8,500 members and growing. This group and one parent in particular forced the DOE to share kids' lottery numbers." Elissa, what are two things you'd want people to know about looking for information on social media?

Elissa: Social media can be a really terrific tool. There's also misinformation and a lot of it can be personal frustration that's being shared. Facts can get a little bit lost in the venting. Right now, there are a lot of upset and disappointed and angry families. It can be a great resource but making sure that you take it with a grain of salt. It's a job. Looking for a high school and going through this process for many people, it can be a serious part-time to full-time job and everybody doesn't have those resources. I think what was said before, check in with your guidance counselor.

Your school guidance counselors have all this information. They've had training on how it works. They can help navigate the system a little bit. I think that for a lot of families, even just knowing how to tour, what to do, go into a tour prepared, like the first time I went through it, I had no idea, but come with some questions. Think about your child. If they have an IEP, is that going to be able to be handled at the school? If your kid loves pottery, if your kid wants to dance, if your kid isn't great at getting up early in the morning, check out all those things when you look at a school and have questions to ask so then you feel like you're getting real information about what's going to be the best fit for your kid.

Alison: What is a myth you want to put to rest about this process? One that you hear or parents come in and say to you it's fact and you know it's not.

Elissa: If I have a horrible lottery number, my child stands no chance. That's not true. It's not true. Somebody said something before about how there are screened schools that maybe you don't have the greatest chance at if you don't have a great lottery number, but there are all these other great screened schools that ask for additional materials. That can circumvent a low number or not being in group one. There are opportunities for kids to advocate for themselves in terms of this or a performance-based program. They don't look at grades or screen groups at all.

It's all based on your audition. There are definitely ways out there to make sure that your kid has the best opportunities possible, even if they've been handed not the greatest stuff, like not the greatest number or not in the top group. There's still schools that you can go to. Don't think that a poor lottery number is the end of the world. There are absolutely other options. There's LaGuardia, there's specialized high schools, there's additional materials. You still have a chance of your kid being in a terrific place. That's going to be a good fit for them.

Alison: Julian, is there anything that you've heard in your reporting that you'd like to put to rest that's part of the urban legend?

Julian: Yes. Just building on that, I think with the lottery number, there can be a perception among some families that the system itself is a lottery, that everything comes down to that number. That is the main determining factor and that it's all random chance. I think it's helpful to think about the lottery number as more of a tiebreaker when all else is equal. When two students have the exact same priority, then that number will come into play.

Like Elissa is mentioning, there are a lot of schools that have additional things that are taken into account, additional assessments, and there are a lot of schools where a lower lottery number is not necessarily going to end your chances. On top of everything else, I think every family ultimately has different priorities, different things they're looking for, for their student and so your top choice for a school might be another family's eighth or ninth choice. Again, it's hard to tell just based on one thing, how this process is going to play out because there are a lot of variables that come into play.

I think looking for the right fit for your child ultimately is what we've heard as the best way to approach this and trying not to stress too much about that number or take it as kind of a be-all end-all of this process.

Alison: Thank you so much to Julian Shen-Berro for sharing reporting, and Elissa Stein from High School 411 for sharing your wealth of knowledge and helping out our listeners. We really appreciate your time today.

Elissa: Thanks so much for having us.

Julian: Thank you.

 

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