
Interview with Rene D'Harnoncourt, Museum of Modern Art Director

( Waintrob-Budd Studio Courtesy of The Waintrob Project for the Visual Arts.) )
Dr. E.W. Doty interviews Rene D'Harnoncourt, Director of the Museum of Modern Art about the completion of a $25 million building expansion, completed in 1964 and designed by Philip Johnson. He gives a historical overview of the museum from its beginnings in 1929 in rented rooms located in the Heckscher building. As the men look at photographs and designs, they discuss funding, increased space for exhibitions and public administrative services and the 1963 acquisition of the adjacent Whitney Museum Building.
They also discuss MoMA's collection policy as Doty presses D'Harnoncourt to define Modern Art, specifically mentioning a recent Op Art exhibition. D'Harnoncourt also mentions an art lending service, which provides members with the opportunity to house new work by contemporary artists with the goal of spurring an artist's success in the market.
Audio courtesy of the NYC Municipal Archives WNYC Collection
WNYC archives id: 150935
Municipal archives id: T716
This is a machine-generated transcript. Text is unformatted and may contain errors.
But this today to give a progress report on this expansion program is Mr running down to Christ director of the Museum of Modern Art Mr Dowling That was the scrap of the museum of modern arts nine hundred sixty four expansion beginning with it but I wish the nine hundred twenty nine I think you said it was rented rooms Yes and I didn't and that's nicer than five years ago. Really sad about an affair then the drums and perhaps a bit of it for you and I moved on and. Bounced on House. Mapping through the. Rebuilding and the fifty third Street move into that bridge. I'd like to track in our car now the building which is number eleven on number thirteen mounting. Fifty third Street I believe we have some pictures of this if you have valid out and mention. The rest of. Us that we have in the resume and the Museum of what is this is a rather skeptical. Scene from describes a corrupt. Stream. But in. The Galloway spirit. NEWSROOM this is Paris fifty foot wide and the guy for me and three floors of gravitas and then some for us. Of our faces to bring it up to the hype of the movie this expansion occurred in. The sixty's. Now. This is three like it's ninety three when we made it took about everything the have to bid it not on the streets forever battlegrounds. Now for a little round. Tires in the ground that is the fruit we have a picture. Of it does have errors. This is Wes this is from the stairs from the Test scene the ripping rest into the web and. Being with a glance and you see the room really in the background I as a stream have as planted. Restroom Bear where I just stand here where is the ring. But I have to have the top of the new wing that you see where this will give you the benefit of fifty five thousand square feet since I was there with thirty. Feet about down. It's very helpful but I still have the light of day sixty for expansion rather every thing in the system for expansion. On the first read. Of the. But as we move around have a picture that was found on high rez never. Listen to this but the scripts are bad and seeing phantom you gratis and two thirds. Back this is bad that is the. Bad reading be framed as a factor of the spill step but was paid. For things like the Japanese has that we had there and some might allow this now it was a permanent that. Scripture display as Quebecer God let us say the expansion to the Haster is. Round rest and then run around for a bound amount for her this is a test but I'm going in for paths with groups as run of the finest kind of us that we have if the guy was sixty feet and fifteen for a time I had to wade through the high to achieve ground level ground maybe I really didn't test but there is. This is how the first bad saddlebags was eighteen feet I sometimes I was fifteen. I had other features of this nine hundred sixty four expansion the way we have had this is right now as seen from the. From the saddle from rest several grab and we now see the lab. Spread about umbrellas attacks and. Threats of rip on top of that we have again this group is for scraps and the past we have the bad of it in the center of. One thread writers have described survive but this may be passable for us. As bad. Sixty percent this is a tremendous expansion as they. Conditions. Special of the square. Round every day and the rest of us described simple. Naming names places. But I'd rather see. Britain have than I was when expansion did not only involve the big ice. And the building I have to pass and I saw him and then when I consider the changes in the building I thought sorry we see only really going to like the same way a public sees all of the pictures but I understand that there are many many other things are necessary to make an Israel operate such as say the Strait of space in space air conditioning spare bedrooms better them and A back the maybe make changes that will be read in the papers into space for the public and trans requests from Riyadh the best. You could get information. Membership could be obtained at the desk and I was incidentally we could buy some of the museums public lessons round the museum became so popular these days cats are proud it was perfectly impossible to get information to BRADBROOK. Then Mr progressed so we had to separate these things and do everything whereas at the lab. Written very small and. Very grand We had a great number of visitors the situation is very very serious So now that we have been. Establish respect its roots the fact is a book store read. And the Jewish Bible traces on the other side ram have a membership that's the best we have it lobby scribe among the seventy five percent of the five feet so. Get into the museum but I was a sense of freedom from this rabble. Too that I had to attend exhibitions but everybody has to grow up. To the pentameter to the steppers to group to see the permanent collection which was how I was on the second and third floors and there's even room for such my little sayings as a place to check the tears for the day out of avarice and I very much treasure traffic which you have raised me that are wonderful said Graham except really big names in the original November there is nothing with it as taboo for him as it was mind and eyelashes. I mean glasses Adam Gilchrist danger for me seems people because it takes so long to take them out. Yes. I refuse I would rather have a crowd to believe. Me when I have a better mic in front of a service jobs which would add to the for taking out an off the license or to help with reserves budget. I don't know but I don't see how the public would like to read. History Jack as they used to have writing books right you could have a the lashes. Of a seven cat which would operate with a quarter. This expansion was really tremendous and I had asked for a clue to the acquisition of the Whitney Museum Building I understand I tried out of the others I was just ripe private institution. Subsidies I had a friend of several drive them from the state from the city. So. Mr Brown would. Ask as well as Brad would be very good some foundations and people rather sharks around we decided that replica had to have a reading program because the room and the lab. Didn't seem to run to bad the public. We had to spend five minutes that's quite a sum of money it was just respect through the get down gradually prepped redo that because adulations after trying to fathom. It's had to be diverted to the building. To sufficient capital in order to maintain to maintain the larger building. Services services there are a number of bad my doctors appt with. Etc etc Right now if I have to. Have to be down and writes the music very badly needed things I would be. Just like everybody else I have. Recent crisis everywhere and I bet that increasing prices are really the little things and the cost of higher level are the increase in the cost of pictures that you will cry or I right now I'm typing out this plan simply to. Increase the kinds the weather or any kind of services. Back training. And so I don't have a little piece of taxes doing your best to sort of the remission of taxes because you. Have tax relief. To deal with the fabric of the situation with facts free of etc As we said but that is a runaway government does backspace a cursory read of the ocean for Richard. One of the busiest plans for expansion into the building now occupied by the Whitney Museum when it was out to its little one year from this drill where it was a very rare circumstance that at the time but been ripped on our plans for for the Museum of Modern Art for the expansion of the region it was him felt exactly the same thing the ram. Time babble spells the most perilous the movement of space for the public my space to serve correction and. Send staff. And as a matter of fact on the building that was given to the Brooklyn Museum bad the Museum of well. Too bad the building the by the building. Just exactly how it does not come yet except for a business that an alum of a pounds. Van much very much interested in making as much of the museums hurling available to the public as possible I This cannot be done in. This. But rather. I Collection you say read the exam passably but they have to hang everything. That's a nice new limit to have as a means you can do that particularly when we're interested not on the Pentagon structure but I assume for the vast improvements etc. To have a collection of them that means it's not the most but really time I'm sure about them if you have the means at the time I mean right now but I have to before them for that. Ten thousand fans at the same time so we have to have steady places but. Just as we now have we have a Pentium rival photography in addition to the gravitas rep respectfully interested. And. Brought to them. And I would recommend this to run the story and reproducibly thing with painting and sculpture and the mention of the raise up an interesting question that is the way of American Art and I believe that they're interested of the sensitization SABERA has only been around since seventy and seventy six in a wreck of the last two hundred fifty years or a little bit north of the Museum of Modern Art I remember the American it was right International. Define the term modern Now I read it the modern period from Stravinsky second the printer on which I believe was nine hundred twelve or thirteen now how do you define modern art in looking for acquisitions or admissions to your collection ram have been a great deal of track about bass rabbit madame but. I think at the present or less agreed that about eighty maybe. Is the time we have to have more about. The pounding is of mad and that when you talk about this is. What. I'm about go down and you have examples of these paramilitary the brains of things that is really don't have naturally when it comes to the paramilitary do not have as many words and many words. When we're coming closer to the present itself and. Becoming the asters of content that's the absolute best to have better fan examples of it with an absolutely essential to the understanding of the development of contemporary art and of Modern Art Now I am a free man on the Web content matter and I think you can interchange them but you really can't and there was a time when. A certain. Ask this. Friend. The ruling. At the Museum of Contemporary that. I was this is the reason Rather I think razzmatazz did not like the fact that pretty much emphasis and rappers happening. Right at that time. I think the days are residents of amount of resistance rap is happening right now for the simple reason that since the database nothing is the constant to make you feel comfortable with something that is different makes you feel sometimes uncomfortable. Third step the rhythm our band has an interesting situation it means not only that a record Ab was produced at a certain date but that if you use the word mad and I have to associate it with that concept. But this is this is a work of that that is in spirit. Out of my life. And I haven't really talked about it I did mention feel comfortable uncomfortable racial exhibit of our pride was really designed to make you feel very uncomfortable. I don't think it was designed to make you feel uncomfortable I think some of that might make them feel uncomfortable everybody Didn't your dad have to read without glasses or was. That wouldn't it emphasize a try just force of the illusion of a bad I didn't see a bribe advisers around I don't really think it was necessary now when I do think what happens this is. Interesting so. Is that. That. The reaction and. Image. And with this as part of producing it. I mean if you look at the spiders. And. Not a very very macro threat I was going to type about and get the same kind of feeling that something happens to have a clue. And I found I but still. Brown Bears exams at best something up to get. You're such an aside to fake London I think of the example from Brick London out of the same sort of optical deals that's offended I didn't find it an item on the next I don't blame me from the group in the United States if you go to the regular parts you find then a strong black and white six are black and bad things are these kind of things that somehow stimulate. Your nerves sometimes the rest of them sometimes to is that the good or the busy but this is just run of the means that I've been saving nothing for a time we haven't missed first family is not it is now becoming more interesting. Is that many painters. Have done things experiments very intimate in the history of Vita anyways and the typical Where ways of ways that. Very few very few off. Of producing art have no predecessors in fact none of them today had to be really original isn't it. Right up in the pan with the kind of thing I would never judge a man to use it. Was a device for a new and seemingly a good. That had a bad using ten cans and bottles caps and little desires and. Again it's not something taboo and if you just simply think in terms of it must have been at a shocking when for the first time frantic in the Netherlands some of the sadness. Luna still laughs. Out of vegetables. And had a bit better been the subject before a fish or people. Downs and Clara's that everyone missed some of this rally and I'm going with the i've come a certain bad time with B.P. shot I do to the objects of piss in fact that the painters may have been going completely to pieces did not. I do a list of students do certain things and I have bad need of mankind didn't save them from vegetables red face is a very big sculpture inappropriately or just distributed throughout the picture to give it an elegant effect and I cook affection rather than affect me Fred when they read and read and read having pieces of Scripture that. After writing you painted what it is you bring to it and some people in the guise of the business or you sat down exactly and put them in an appropriate landscape seeing the demand on something in a crowd. And then coming down this through just to source of wisdom it seems to be coming down well as coming out of the direction of a real lesson he was saying that the real lesson of our contemporary interest the painter is trying to catch what is the reservoir of the wish mashed beer can in some bottle caps are a right to the words. It never was the rule is. Only. A meal with only. Good people to stay at painting bits the birds are painting read books painting everybody things. It was because they saw something in the everyday things how they started having a meaning and that's exactly the same thing that happens now as there was. A certain extent with a broad definition of the. Term. That I really like this one and I realize it's a very. Very often right is more important to the audience is not. It's not the production of. Come in certain message now this message may be a very specific run that maybe is a very bad one but desire to communicate and so there is great for some people just want to communicate some things outside themselves that was terribly important done do things out in front of the machine I don't simply want to communicate some things. Have to be insight into this. I had need of the iris to explain why they visit a lot of nights collections are now fairly asked about our taxes are not allowed to live well. But the philosopher writes this It's because it makes it clear the basis on which the collection has been a bit sad I'm very proud of that kind of acceptance compliment because the critics know the Museum of my mouth it was. Ninety nine percent to one that is bad I was the first director of the Museum of Modern Art and who is now now the rector of the museum's collection and has served our collection committee for thirty five years read a perfectly extraordinary sense of discrimination and with a perfectly extraordinary sense of the extreme. Roots of I'd rather read representing. Established. Or movement or. This is the critical faculty of the man that has to make the decisions about the acquisitions spite of your modesty I'm sure you have the deserve the credit for a great deal of it's been accomplished as right as witnessed by battle of which we are so admired Now again it is treasures internationally you have and this is an international council how does this function exactly right if I may. Back in history just for a few years in the United for the elite. Some of that was these. Were made aware of the facts that every country of certain types of achievement. Rez But this is simply because the international touching the scenes I remember actually I'm back from them and I was rather shaken when I found out that the citizens of Yemen have the same exhibition of French art seventy submissions of English. Fabrics a business this is our contemporary modern art five exhibitions of the timeout. Submissions from the Soviet Union and now that. I consider says. Under this is on the basis of this recognition a group of very much interested better since September. In international relating to national live banded together and of the International Council to do the work not Iraq and have us here have helped us since then to this probably the largest international exchange program of any situation in the world that is certainly the better light it is that they do it to interpret American life to people abroad that have a great significance and that is the publication service doesn't do the publications but a lot of these travel exhibitions. Disempowered our publications started on. Out of school started simply publishing a number of. Catalogs to accompany such submissions additions and in the meantime it was found that the catalogue very often just remove the interest of the Internet to become drug month the submission is gone and we've sent the data from producing catalogs to producing monographs. So by producing monographs we have MT We have. A top of the box and about one of the leaders of the of you can have a beer list of the paintings exhibited a lot of graph a good description of the page here at the sky where there's a group there it would be you know would improve the lives of the mounds of Reverend Wright lending service how does this operate is this if there was really our citizens this is available only two members of the museum you see a membership is now pretty much the rest thirty eight thousand members that's and I was river rise membership as well yes it is under thirty eight thousand my bus route twenty thousand live in New York now research that the best thing we can do for began our test this is I for helping to get them out that since right back to back then things done the root of young people is back now from. Timidity. But banning anybody to hand painting. For two or three months this gives you it sounds to do science is this the kind of thing you'd want to live with trash. Paintings and the paintings and sculptures and now then they say it was do not belong to the museum These are things that you get from from Taoist read from the God of S. But nothing goes into the world lending so it would have been asked but not the one about who it is well this is one of your services and get out of the public the other is tell us what tell us and really a lot of. Round. Before we have the building did not have an X.. Hour out of it attendance was about six hundred six hundred fifty thousand. It looks now as if to first. Really get this clue to the movie to be about it in the mail is certainly a testament to the one of the work which you have done and the need and the service of the resume a lot of night is providing the lad and internationally thank you for being with us Mr Downer of course. Everyone Reisa has presented clothes for the world of the art your list was Dr E.W. told me executive director of the office of Cultural Affairs spoken directed by J. Martin.