A. J. Jacobs Puzzles It Out

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. How far into the week do you go with The New York Times crossword, which gets harder and harder Monday to Saturday? Do you tweet out your Wordle or are you one of the many who got back into jigsaw puzzles during the lockdown? Puzzles come in many shapes and sizes and for some of us mark the hours or days of the week, that includes my next guest, A. J. Jacobs. He's a journalist and NPR contributor as some of you know, and as it says in his bio, a human guinea pig.

You might remember him from his books The Year of Living Biblically, Thanks a Thousand, or It's All Relative when he was here to talk about that book in which he showed that we were distant cousins, like he apparently is to thousands or millions of people, but he's also a puzzle solver, and his new book is The Puzzler: One Man's Quest to Solve the Most Baffling Puzzles Ever, from Crosswords to Jigsaws to the Meaning of Life. Hey, A. J. Jacobs, welcome back to WNYC.

1. J. Jacobs: Thank you. It's great to be back, cousin Brian.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, A. J has puzzles for you today, after all, what would a book called The Puzzler be without puzzles. Give us a call at 212-433-WNYC if you would like to try your hand at one of the puzzle questions from the book. No prizes, just fun. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Who wants to play and see if you can solve an A. J. Jacobs puzzle, 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692? Can I start as calls are coming in with a question, what is a puzzle versus a math problem or a conundrum? Do you need to separate those out?

1. J. Jacobs: Well, they are all cousins, but to me a puzzle is one that requires innovative thinking and it gets that aha moment. To me, part of the book's thesis is that puzzles are not trivial, that the little puzzles, Wordle or crosswords, jigsaws, help us solve the big problems, the big puzzles in life and business and the world because those puzzles require more and more ingenuity. The mRNA vaccine. That was an amazing puzzle that we solved.

Brian Lehrer: You believe in that? I'm kidding. You became known as a human guinea pig for changing your habits or life to say live according to the biblical commandments for a period of time for one of your books, but I get the idea that this book wasn't such a big change for you. How many puzzles do you do every day or every week?

1. J. Jacobs: Oh yes, that's hard to count. That's a puzzle in itself. I do the crossword. I'm a word nerd at heart, but for this book, I went wide and embraced my love of all kinds of puzzles, so jigsaw and ciphers and Japanese puzzle boxes. I went around the world and I went to the CIA where they have an unsolved puzzle right there on the grounds and I talked chess puzzles with Gary Kasparov, and I competed as team USA in the World Jigsaw Puzzle Championship in Spain,-

Brian Lehrer: You did?

1. J. Jacobs: -and I embarrassed my country. I let down my Americans, I was second to last, so apologies for that, but it was wild and fun and educational and inspiring.

Brian Lehrer: I think Eileen in Long Beach is brave enough to try one of your puzzles. Hi, Eileen, you're on WNYC with A. J. Jacobs.

Eileen: Hi, it's great to be with you.

1. J. Jacobs: Hello. Great to be with you, Eileen, and just to be clear, I didn't write these puzzles. In the book, I curate some of my favorite puzzles in all of history. There are original puzzles in the book by a great puzzle maker named Greg Pliska, as well as a $10,000 secret contest hidden in the introduction, no purchase necessary. Anyway, I'll start with ditloids. This is a type of puzzle that's about 100 years old, and what happens is it's a common phrase that begins with a number, but the words in the phrase are reduced to their initial letter. An example is 52W in a Y, that's the clue, and the answer is 52 weeks in a year. You ready, Eileen?

Eileen: Yes, I'm ready.

1. J. Jacobs: 5,280 F in M.

Eileen: 5,280 feet in a mile.

1. J. Jacobs: Look at that. You got it.

Brian Lehrer: How about that. [chuckles] You got a fanfare. You want to keep going? You got another few ditloids there on that list.

Eileen: I'm good to go. Let's do another.

1. J. Jacobs: All right, I'll do one that's a little one, and then I'll get to some that are more challenging. 20,000 L under the S.

Eileen: 20,000 leagues under the sea.

1. J. Jacobs: Nice. Love the music.

Brian Lehrer: Literate as well as mathematical is Eileen.

1. J. Jacobs: That's right.

Brian Lehrer: Just do one more for her and then we we'll go on somebody else.

1. J. Jacobs: How about 31 F at BR.

Brian Lehrer: I see the answer and I'm laughing.

Eileen: 31 F, I don't know.

1. J. Jacobs: It's a delicious answer. It's cold and delicious.

Eileen: Oh, 31 flavors at Baskin-Robbins.

1. J. Jacobs: Nailed it. Without even a hint.

Brian Lehrer: Very good, Eileen. If I had a prize I would give you one. That was fun. All right. That's cool. So Ditloids. You know what, I'm going to go right to another caller and you'll give that caller a different kind of puzzle question. Alexander in Queens. Hi, Alexander.

Alexander: Hi there.

1. J. Jacobs: Hello, Alexander. Yes. Let's do some crosswords because that is my first love. By the way, I am speaking tonight with the king of crosswords Will Shortz at the 92nd Street Y, and we'll be talking puzzles and doing puzzles, and tickets available, so come on out. Here [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: Wait, does Will Shortz consider you like a protege or the competition? Because it was very Will Shortz what you were just doing with Eileen in Long Beach there.

1. J. Jacobs: Well, that is a good point. No, I don't think he's that threatened, but we are friends. We are friends, and he has changed puzzles hugely. Before him, the Times crosswords were all about the river and Bulgaria. He introduced a lot of word play, a lot of more pop culture, and actually continues to evolve. There are people who say there needs to be more diversity in the mainstream crosswords, and they have done some of that. I have seen-

Brian Lehrer: Interesting.

1. J. Jacobs: - they've hired editors of color and such.

Brian Lehrer: We'll tell people again about that event tonight at the 92nd Street Y before the end of the show. You're going to do crossword puzzle clues for Alexander in Queens?

1. J. Jacobs: Right. These are some of my favorite. I'm a fan of the word play ones. Here's one from Elizabeth Gorky from The New Yorker, she wrote it's a four-letter word starting with E, first ladies' residence. First ladies' residence, not the East Wing. It's four letters.

Alexander: Oh, Eden.

1. J. Jacobs: Nice. I love it. All right. How about another Elizabeth Gorky. This is an eight-letter word starting with T, hammer home, hammer home, and it's got a question mark at the end that tells you it's a pun. Hammer home is the phrase, but it could be a home for hammers. You got to think of the two.

Alexander: I'm thinking there's something to do with sore maybe, but [crosstalk]--

1. J. Jacobs: I like you're thinking out of the box, but you're going the wrong direction. It's toolbox, toolbox. Yes, very clever.

Brian Lehrer: All right. Give Alexander one more.

1. J. Jacobs: All right. One more, Alexander. This was from my friend Peter Gordon who actually put me in a New York Times crossword puzzle, the highlight of my life. He writes a chocolate-coated treat lover for short. It's just three letters. It starts with an L. It's a chocolate-coated treat lover. The trick is the treat is not chocolate-coated, the thing is chocolate-coated. It's got a [crosstalk]--

Brian Lehrer: I'm seeing the answer here. That is a really hard question.

1. J. Jacobs: Listen, I got to give the range. Yes. All right. Well, it is lab as in Labrador retriever. Yes. Very tricky. I didn't get it either.

Alexander: [inaudible 00:09:30] [crosstalk].

Brian Lehrer: [chuckles] Alexander, thanks for playing. Wait, the Labrador retriever loves treats, that's why treat lover, and what's chocolate-coated?

1. J. Jacobs: Well it's the the lab has a chocolate coat often, so chocolate-colored coat.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, the chocolate Lab. That species, all right.

1. J. Jacobs: I will tell you, one advantage of crosswords to me is it teaches you to pay really close attention the language, which we need now in this age of misinformation and disinformation. I think it's a great practice for trying to navigate the crazy landscape we're in.

Brian Lehrer: A. J. Jacobs is here if you're just joining us with his new book The Puzzler: One Man's Quest to Solve the Most Baffling Puzzles Ever, from Crosswords to Jigsaws to the Meaning of Life. We can take a few more people to play some of the puzzle games that he's brought for you. 212-433-WNYC, 433-9692, no prizes, just fun. The Wordle craze really started after your book went to press, but are you a fan? Do you play?

1. J. Jacobs: I am a fan. The funny thing is, yes, I closed the book about two weeks before it exploded and I had to beg my editor, "We got to reopen the book and insert Wordle somewhere." I literally inserted the word Wordle. It now says, "At night I play the crossword and Wordle." Wordle, if people ask me, yes, Wordle is in there, not the most in-depth, but we've got tons of other puzzles. Wordle to me was lovely because it was almost a uniting factor because on my Twitter feed, instead of the usual vitriol and uninformed opinion, you had these lovely little green and yellow boxes. I was very grateful that it became such a phenomenon.

Brian Lehrer: Are you willing to share your starting word? Mine is solar.

1. J. Jacobs: Oh, that's a good one. Mine is similar. I'm not proud of it. I'm not proud of it. I read a an article about an artificial intelligence that figured out the best starting word is soare, S-O-A-R-E, which is a young hawk, and yes, it just seems cheap.

Brian Lehrer: You get the three vowels in there, the O, the A, and E.

1. J. Jacobs: Exactly. Yes, I actually admire people who do a different Wordle initial word every day, it seems more sporting, so I should be doing that.

Brian Lehrer: Yes. I do have an alternative word. If I saw that one day's word started with a S, I have another one that doesn't start with a S that I would use the next day. All right. Who cares? Gabriel in Los Angeles,-

1. J. Jacobs: I do. [chuckles]

Brian Lehrer: - [chuckles] you want to play a puzzle with A. J. Jacobs? Hi, Gabriel.

Gabriel: Hey, Brian. Hey, AJ. Let's go.

1. J. Jacobs: All right, I'm ready. All right, how about some riddles? Riddles are one of the oldest forms of puzzling. They have caused wars. The oldest according to my research was a Babylonian riddle. I'll just tell it really quickly. You're not going to die laughing. It's what gets fat without eating and pregnant without having sex, and the answer is rain cloud. I think it was funny at the time or in Babylonian, but here are some that I think are more solvable. Here's one from African folklore, "Wherever I go, it closely follows me." What follows you all the time?

Gabriel: Got to be a shadow, A. J.

1. J. Jacobs: It is. Nice. Look at that.

Gabriel: That's a classic one.

1. J. Jacobs: I got to throw in some classics. How about this one from about 1900 United States. It's, "I'm an odd number, take away one letter and I become even." What number is an odd number, but then you take away one letter and it becomes even?

Gabriel: When you say letter, are you referring to a numeric number or is there a letter involved in this thing that we're talking about?

1. J. Jacobs: There is a letter like as in A, B, C, D, E, F, G. It's one of the classic. It's a little wordplay.

Brian Lehrer: Oh, I got it. I don't have this one in front of me, but I got it. I'm sure I got it.

Gabriel: Oh, Brian. Now the pressure's on. All right. An odd number.

Brian Lehrer: An odd number, take away one letter, you're telling him to take away a letter from a number and you have even.

1. J. Jacobs: Actually, it's easier when you read it because even could be pronounced a different way, it could be pronounced Evan, and you take away one letter and I become Evan.

Brian Lehrer: Now you gave it away.

Gabriel: Wow. Oh, we're talking about 11.

1. J. Jacobs: Well, I like that answer. That's two letters.

Gabriel: It depends on the-- [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: You would've to take away two letters. Of course the answer is seven.

Gabriel: Seven.

1. J. Jacobs: But 11 would be my follow up. I like that.

Brian Lehrer: You got on to the right track there, Gabriel. Thank you. Gabriel, I have to let you go because the show's almost over. I know from all your other books and appearances, you do things that are really fun and quirky, but that also have a lot of depth to them. When I look at the title of this book, which is The Puzzler: One Man's Quest to Solve the Most Baffling Puzzles Ever, from Crosswords [chuckles] to Jigsaws [chuckles] to the Meaning of Life. Wait, how did the meaning of life get in there and how close do you come in the book?

1. J. Jacobs: Well, I don't want no spoilers, but my feeling is that puzzles have a lot to teach us. They're not trivial. They're not a waste of time. They teach us how to think and also incredibly importantly, puzzles encourage us to be curious. To me, curiosity is one of the greatest human motivations. I loved what your previous guest said about asking the right questions. To me, we're only going to solve these big problems if we are curious. There's a motto in the puzzle world "Get curious, not furious" because if you throw the Rubik's Cube across the room, you're never gonna solve it, and I like to apply that to life. Always be curious.

By the way, speaking of curiosity, I have to say that I did not create it, so I can boast about it, the contest associated with the puzzle, the book is amazing. The puzzlerbook.com and the people who did it are geniuses and you don't have to buy the book.

Brian Lehrer: Oh yes. What is this $10,000 hidden puzzle?

1. J. Jacobs: Well, there is a hidden code in the introduction to The Puzzler book and the introduction is for free. If you get that code and put in the password, on May 3rd, there will be a month of mind-bending puzzles, one released every day. If you get to the end, you get to a final round and the winner of the final round gets $10,000 and Greg Pliska and his group of ingenious puzzle creators did it. I had very little to do with it, but I love it. I'm happy to be associated with it in some way.

Brian Lehrer: That is so cool. A. J. Jacobs will be at the 92nd Street Y tonight in addition to releasing this new book in conversation with the great Will Shortz, the crossword editor at The New York Times and puzzle master on Weekend Edition tonight at 7:30. That's an in-person event?

1. J. Jacobs: It is and online, but please come in person. It'll be fun.

Brian Lehrer: The Puzzler: One Man's Quest to Solve the Most Baffling Puzzles Ever, from Crosswords to Jigsaws to the Meaning of Life is the name of the book. A. J., thanks for sharing it with us.

1. J. Jacobs: Thank you, Brian.

Brian Lehrer: That's the Brian Lehrer Show for today produced by MaryEileen Croke, Lisa Allison, Amina Srna, Carl Boisrond and [unintelligible 00:17:50]. Our interns this spring semester are Anna Conkling, Gigi Steckel, and Diego Munos. Zach Gottehrer-Cohen edits our daily politics podcast. Megan Ryan holds it all together as the head of live radio, and we had Juliana Fonda and Milton Ruiz today at the audio controls. I'm Brian Lehrer.

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