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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It. I'm Alison Stewart, live from the WNYC Studios in SoHo. Thank you for spending part of your day with us. Whether you're listening on the radio, live streaming, or on demand, I'm grateful you're here. On today's show, actor Annaleigh Ashford is up for a Tony for her role as Mrs. Lovett in the Broadway revival of Sweeney Todd. She'll join me to discuss along with musical supervisor and conductor Alex Lacamoire.

We'll speak with visual artist Ebony Patterson, who has a residency at the New York Botanical Garden, and we'll talk with actor Jesse Garcia, who stars in a new film called Flamin' Hot, which is about the Cheetos, and of course, the vibrancy and contributions of Mexican American culture. That is our plan. Let's get this started with some theater etiquette.

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Alison Stewart: The Tony Awards are this weekend and after the awards are handed out, a lot of people will be buying up theater tickets, so it's a good time to talk through some etiquette. This segment was sparked by a real experience. I was at a musical for work in some really nice seats, press seats, and I sat behind a super famous person and their spouse. I mean, a really famous person and their spouse.

You know them, you know them. There are two empty seats next to this couple. The seats remained empty until intermission when two people came down, young, sort of cheery-looking folks, and said, "Excuse me." They walked in and they sat in those two seats. The two, the famous person and the spouse looked at each other, talked, looked back, and then informed the two new seat takers that those were their seats and they had paid for them.

The younger couple said, "Yes, they're so great. They're so much better than ours were." [laughs] And they didn't move. Then the famous pair talked again and said, "But wait, we paid for those seats." Let's just say it got uncomfortable really fast. I came back, I told my team about it, and there was a real split about the appropriate move. We started comparing stories and thought maybe a little conversation would be helpful about how to be a good theatergoer.

You know you're supposed to turn off your cell phone, but there are other situations that aren't that clear, so let's talk about it. Joining me now in the studio is Jackson McHenry, a critic at New York Magazine and Vulture. He sees three to four shows a week, so he spends a lot of time in the trenches. Jackson, welcome back.

Jackson McHenry: Hello. Thanks for having me.

Alison Stewart: We want to hear from you to talk through some theater behavior situations. What do you think? Is it okay to move to an unoccupied seat after intermission? What do you do if you really do need that cough drop if you have to cough? Should you silence your cell phone or should you turn it off? 212-433-9692. That is 212-433-WNYC. You can also text us at that number now. You can call us with your questions and your comments about theater etiquette, and also, if you got a crazy story like I do, we want to hear that as well. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. That's quite a story, isn't it?

Jackson McHenry: That is wild. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: It was wild. It was wild to watch it unfold. Broad has been closed for so long, and then it opened back up and there was this phase where people were not sure they wanted to come back, but people have come back in a big way, and it's at pre-pandemic levels basically. What is something that you observed about the way people behave that's slightly different?

Jackson McHenry: I think there is a feeling of we've been all away from each other for so long, and people are coming back into these spaces, and there's a lot of people just feeling as if it is their own living room and ignoring the people around them and leading to a lot more-- maybe it's a sense of bickering. There was a Playbill article that they ran a while ago about ushers having to deal with more audience demands in these theaters. I also think ticket prices are higher on Broadway, so there is a little bit of like, "I've paid for this thing. Everyone must abide by what I want from it." It does feel like things are heightened.

Alison Stewart: Are there things that you feel very strongly about, unwritten rules of Broadway, of theater etiquette? We don't just say Broadway, theaters.

Jackson McHenry: I think the big one is just any way of making noise. Make sure you turn off your phone or completely silence your phone. Some people think that they've silenced things and it starts going off, and that is just the baseline level. I think a lot of it is basic respect for the people around you, making sure that you are not, I don't know, stretching or sitting in a way that is directly blocking someone.

If you need to go to the bathroom or something and step over one, make sure to ask. In that instance, make sure to ask if there is an open seat. I don't think it is necessarily wrong to occupy an open seat if it is available, but ask the people around and make sure that they are comfortable with it too.

Alison Stewart: When I was doing the promo-- Come on in, Jason. Jason Isaac is one of our great engineers here at WNYC. He does a lot of the full bios. We do the promos every morning, and I did the promo for this, Jackson, and Jason said, "I have a story, so I'm dragging you out from behind the board."

Jason Isaac: I actually thought of a second story since we spoke.

Jackson McHenry: That's amazing.

Jason Isaac: Story number one. The first show my wife and I went to after things started opening up and we were vaccinated and everything, so probably September of 2021, we went to David Byrne's American Utopia. Awesome show. I had an aisle seat. The woman sitting directly across from me on the other side of the aisle was I think a tourist, obviously a big fan. She was singing along loudly with almost every song. Remember at this time masks were required everywhere.

The ushers came over, told her to put the mask on, two minutes later, the mask came back off, all right, whatever. She also had her phone out and was taking videos of the show and in between songs, playing back the videos on her phone with the volume on.

Alison Stewart: It's so wild.

Jason Isaac: Everybody around was just like, "What is going on here?" Story number two, which you haven't heard yet, Alison.

Alison Stewart: Okay, I'm ready.

Jason Isaac: This is not a Broadway story, but Carnegie Hall. We went to see Jazzmeia Horn, a great jazz singer, her first Carnegie Hall show ever. In the middle of the performance, a guy stands up in the audience with a bouquet of flowers, walks up to the stage, climbs up on the stage, gets down on his knees, and tries to hand the flowers to Jazzmeia Horn and tell her how amazing she is and what a big fan he is.

No one knew what to do, including the security guards who thought it was part of the show. She handled it great, played it off with the guy, then went back to his seats, climbed over some other seats to get back and sat down and enjoyed the rest of the show. No mask.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Jason, thank you for adding your stories. Those are wild. I'm curious of your thoughts, Jackson, just when you hear those.

Jackson McHenry: I think a big thing is recording in a theater, it's so out of bounds in a way, but also playing it back, wild to me. You're saving that for a later time in the first place, and I think a lot of shows have tried to be very strict about, "We're trying to preserve the experience. You can record during the final bows." Or sometimes musicals will do a megamix and encourage people to have that moment, but there's definitely a sense of like, "Don't disrupt the people around you like that."

Alison Stewart: How are theaters handling it? Like Jason?

Jackson McHenry: It's a complicated issue in a sense because you do want to go to a theater and experience something live with people around you and have that communal feeling. I remember coming back and last summer seeing Into the Woods and someone gasping when a terrible thing happened to Sara Bareilles and you like that. You like the feeling of, "Oh, I'm here with people in the moment sharing something."

I think there's also a sense of perception, especially with theater, that it is stuffy and uptight and there are a lot of unwritten rules that people might not understand. A lot of theater companies are trying to be more welcoming, especially in reaching out to more racially diverse and socioeconomically diverse audiences and saying, we encourage some level of reaction. You don't have to dress up formally or you don't have to abide by.

We're trying to allow you in, but we're also trying to preserve an experience that works for an audience to have as a whole. It's a complicated thing. I think in some plays instances I've seen plays at the public recently at Vineyard Theater where they have an insert into the program just outlining some basic levels of etiquette, saying yes.

Alison Stewart: Oh, really? Like what?

Jackson McHenry: At the Vineyard [unintelligible 00:09:04] it was saying, "Make sure to turn off your phone. Make sure to respect the people around you, but also, we encourage if you're moved by something, if you just suddenly want to shout out, that is fine with us." Sort of saying you can react to what's happening in the narrative with the characters but just remember to be respectful, which is a nice way of saying-

Alison Stewart: Interesting. Yes.

Jackson McHenry: -we want your reaction, we want you here, but we also want you to understand what the guidelines are.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Jackson McHenry, a critic at Vulture and New York Magazine. He's in the theater a lot. We're talking about theater etiquette. Let's go to some calls. Let's talk to Doug calling in from South Orange. Hi, Doug, thanks for calling All Of It.

Doug: Hey, thanks so much for having me. This is a little bit more subtle than what Jackson was talking about, but I was at a show recently and the gentleman next to me had an Apple Watch, and every time he moved, the watch face would light up. I tried to ignore it, tried to ignore it, and then I asked him if he could turn it off. He just subtly covered it up with his jacket. Then it started again and I asked him again. That happened maybe two or three times. I am certainly convinced that an Apple Watch should not light up for sure. As I was sitting here waiting for it to come on, the real question I have is how many times can you ask someone to stop something before you just give up?

Alison Stewart: Thank you, Doug. Or you engage someone, an usher.

Jackson McHenry: I always say, I guess, three times, but maybe that's being too generous, [laughs] or two times, just saying, "Hi. I'm sorry, could you please?" Then, "Hi. I'm sorry, could you please?" And then actually, we need to bring someone in. Yes, things like that. The electronics that people don't think about is their phone but are just casting light all around.

Alison Stewart: What's the best pre-show announcement you've heard or one you think has been the most effective? I think when I went to see Parade, having Senator Warnock tell you, something about his voice and he's a preacher and I was just like, "Yes, sir. I'll turn off my phone, sir."

Jackson McHenry: Exactly.

Alison Stewart: I just found that one to be really effective.

Jackson McHenry: Yes. When it's someone with a figure of authority, I think sometimes productions air on the side of having someone do it in character and getting a little too jokey, and then people are distracted by the fact that someone is talking to them and not actually remembering to turn off their phones, but someone who's a little stern, who's a little serious--

I've been to productions where they fully will confiscate your phone in one of those Yondr pouches which was a big deal, for instance, for the revival of Take Me Out last year because it had performers who were doing shower scenes where they were fully nude, and they were very concerned about making sure they felt comfortable.

That just requires a lot of logistic effort on behalf of the theater that they have to have employees who are there making sure to check everything and who are there afterwards to give you your phone because people get touchy if it's more than five minutes being like, "I need to see it."

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Victoria from Westport, Connecticut. Hi, Victoria, thanks for calling All Of It.

Victoria: Hi. I agree with Jackson. I really think that it's a matter of politeness with the couple that sat down next to the celebrities. I think if they would've just asked, "Are these seats taken? Can I sit here?" I'm sure they would've said, okay. I think that just sitting down, it's all about politeness. That's all.

Alison Stewart: Victoria, thank you for calling. Let's talk to Michael, calling in from Brightwaters, Long Island. Hi, Michael, thanks for calling All Of It.

Michael: Two stories because I've done some stage work myself on a community theater level. In the audience, I went to the Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with Michael Caine and Steve Martin. I was seated in the fourth row, and in a very intense scene where both actors are face-to-face, a cell phone goes off in the audience. Both actors looked at this individual that had the cell phone ringing in the middle of the performance and they both in unison said, "Would you mind getting that for us please?" The audience erupted in such a laughter that they ended up laughing and then they just continued with the rest of the show.

Second story is, I went to see the original Broadway production of Aladdin. As the Genie is making his grand entrance, James Monroe Iglehart, there's a lady seated in the orchestra level, I'm seated in the balcony, and she's saying, "Wait, wait, wait," loud enough that everyone seated around her starts to look back thinking, "Who is this crazy person?" She's out there with a camera and she wants to take a picture of the Genie as he's coming out. James Monroe Iglehart says, "Man, it takes a lot for someone to make me break character, but you just did," and then he continued with the rest of the show like one of those--

Alison Stewart: He's such a good sport too. He's a good soul. This one's interesting. Someone texted in, and it says, "I go to three or four shows a week seeing 52 of the year tonight, [unintelligible 00:14:23]. My biggest tip is to use airplane mode on your phone during the show and leave it in your bag or pocket in case the screen lights up. Also, give other patrons a little grace. If you don't recognize the sound, it could be an insulin monitor or something similar." To the point of always just having good manners or just being kind about it maybe the first time.

Jackson McHenry: There's a lot of other reasons that someone or maybe something is breaking through as an alert or something, but trying to make sure you're quietly having a conversation with the people near you.

Alison Stewart: What about if you are on the aisle? This happened to my friend and he was like, "What?" Some woman is like, "Can you go get me a Playbill?" [laughter] Can you ask the people on the aisle to get you a Playbill? How do you feel about that when other theatergoers ask things of other theatergoers?

Jackson McHenry: Oh, gosh. It depends on the way-- If it's just a demand, that comes across as pretty rude. If you're starting to have a conversation with someone and they're like, "Oh, you're right," near the usher, I could see that being fine. Again, [laughs] it depends so much on the level of familiarity.

Alison Stewart: Let's go to Jonathan on line four who's actually calling in from Georgia. Hi, Jonathan, thanks for calling All Of It.

Jonathan: Hey, Alison, thanks so much. Enjoying the segment this afternoon.

Alison Stewart: Great.

Jonathan: The question that this brings up to me is who is Broadway trying to appeal to? Personally, I can't afford to attend any Broadway shows at this point just because they're prohibitively expensive. I know that I'd be a good audience member. It seems to me that we're surprised that people feel at liberty to sing along when they're seeing a show because they have paid $500 a seat. The music is like the most obvious-sounding jukebox dribble that we've been given in the past 50 years in the first place. That's like a mixed--

Alison Stewart: That's the point. That was actually one of the points I wanted to make, that a lot of these are jukebox musicals. They come with songs that everybody knows the word to. They're very exciting. That's very bright. As a counterpoint to what Jonathan says, a lot of them do-- if your rush tickets are in the affordable range and a lot of these shows are trying to do theater tickets for students, they have the last-minute student sales, so you are getting a different mix in the theaters these days. Where do you stand with singing along?

Jackson McHenry: It's a pretty no-no for me, but I think there are instances certainly, especially in jukebox musicals, like I saw The Neil Diamond Musical and they do Sweet Caroline and they really encourage everyone in the audience to sing along and they have the actor be like, "Pa-pa-pa." That kind of thing is appealing so directly to that imagined audience member, someone who probably has a lot of money and is wanting to go relive that thing.

A lot of these things, like some of those calls were saying, if there's a great comedic actor, these people are very well trained to live in the moment and respond to something, but it's very hard in a drama. Parade would not be a show that I would imagine you want people singing along to. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: No doubt. Jackson McHenry is a critic at Vulture and New York Magazine. We are talking about theater etiquette. We are taking your calls. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. If you want to get in on this conversation, we'll have more after a quick break. This is All Of It.

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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Jackson McHenry, a critic at Vulture and New York Magazine. We are talking about theater etiquette. When you go to the theater, the dos and don'ts. A lot of people just silence their phones, Jackson, but that's not really enough, right?

Jackson McHenry: Often, you think that it might be off, but it's not fully off and it leads to situations where also if you have other connected devices to your phone, it may start to babble at you. I went to see My Fair Lady a few years ago and right at the moment where Eliza was coming back to talk with Henry Higgins in a very dramatic scene and it was very quiet, you could just hear, "Bluetooth failed to connect."

Alison Stewart: [laughs] Oh, no. You know what, I had to turn off a certain-- I hope it's off, on my phone, that I keep in the studio because I talk a lot about TV series and Siri thought I was talking to her a lot. When I first came back on the air, it started going off a lot. Let's talk to Jim, calling in from Toms River. Hi, Jim.

Jim: Hi, Alison. Thanks for taking the call. My son was in a production of Little Shop of Horrors in high school just this past spring. Everyone silenced their phones, but just at the moment where the young woman who played Audrey was starting to sing Somewhere That's Green, the theater was appropriately quiet, and then the first one, and then a second, and then a couple and dozens of alarms started to go off because there was a tornado warning, but God bless her, that young woman, she was a rock. She kept right on singing.

Alison Stewart: Jim, thank you for calling in. Let's talk to Shelly, calling in from Terrytown. Hi, Shelly, thanks for calling All Of It.

Shelly: Thanks for taking my call. I love what you do with the theater stuff because I go to the theater a lot, so it's wonderful to hear it. My experience was Laura Benanti and I believe it was called The Shop on Main Street. It was a Roundabout production, and in the middle of the show, someone's cell phone went off. She stopped and she looked up and she said, "I'll wait," and then went on with the production. I've never seen anybody do it. Boy, was it effective? It's really too bad that people can be so rude that they don't turn off their phones. It drives me crazy.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for calling in. There have been some classic comebacks from the stage.

Jackson McHenry: Oh, yes.

Alison Stewart: Are there any that you remember?

Jackson McHenry: One of the famous ones, there are many famous ones involving Patti LuPone who likes to let loose. When she was in Gypsy had a whole rant about someone with a cell phone and recently in company responded to someone who was not wearing their mask and let loose, which you got to love her, a true theater diva. Also, to that point, it's wonderful when the actors are able to command the crowd, but it's a lot of extra labor to put on them to make them also have to do crowd control and respond and modify their performances.

Alison Stewart: I get nervous when it's a really, really intense moment. It takes me out of it because I'm thinking, "Oh, please don't have a phone ring. Oh, please don't have a phone ring." Especially when it's some really emotional scene. This is an interesting text we got. Some theaters are now encouraging drinking, which is negatively affecting audience behavior. Have you seen that?

Jackson McHenry: Yes. That's actually something-- That's a good point if you're spending a lot of money on going to a-- especially into the jukebox musicals, they're selling concessions. It's part of the way to make profits, and a lot of theaters are pushing them hard because they want the extra money. They need it to cover the extra costs of producing things in this moment. I think that definitely contributes.

I saw & Juliet, which is a jukebox musical with all these Max Martin songs. By the end, they do encourage you to pretty much sing along in their confetti cannons and everything. You could just feel the audience getting more rowdy and feel the audience ready for that. That's built to accommodate it in a sense, but it is definitely noticeable.

Alison Stewart: Somebody here mentioned noisy jewelry, noisy bangles. That's interesting. Jessica is calling in from Ditmas Park. Hey, Jessica, thanks for calling All Of It.

Jessica: Sure. Alison, you're great as is Brian. We went to see Death of a Salesman, an incredible production with Wendell Pierce that's up for all these Tony Awards, all of which they deserve. There was a drunken woman, a woman who was completely out of control on the first row. She was standing up and her husband was trying to calm her down. She was making a lot of noise. He, Wendell Pierce, stayed in character as Willy Loman and Matt tried to talk her down. It was unbelievable. I don't know how he did it, but he was amazing. It went on for quite a while.

Alison Stewart: Wow.

Jessica: First of all, all of us were upset because it interrupted the play, but he managed to stay in character as Willy Loman. It was amazing.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for sharing that story. We're actually going to re-air our interview with Wendell Pierce and Sharon D Clarke. Tomorrow, we're going to have a Tony's warmup show. He's just such an elegant person. That doesn't surprise me that he's a-- He's also a vet. He's a pro. Some of these people are really truly pros. Here are some just silly ones, but they can get under your skin, Jackson. Eating, snacking in the seats. Yay or nay?

Jackson McHenry: It's got to be quiet food if you're going to do it. No chips, no crinkly paper. Pretty nay.

Alison Stewart: Personal space in the winter. Coats, bags, what's the etiquette?

Jackson McHenry: Take it off, put it under the seat below you. Make sure you're not just elbowing people all the time. I feel like I'm a tall person, so I feel like I'm always just trying to conserve space. [laughs] I just do a lot of that.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Joe from Staten Island. Hi, Joe, thanks for calling All Of It.

Joe: Hey. Thanks. Before I tell the story, I just want to say about the drinking. It would be a lot better if they weren't giving out sippy cups. Everybody sits down-- As much as I enjoy a sippy cup full of Jameson, it does add to the rowdy atmosphere. I went to see Once a few years ago, and there was somebody videotaping throughout the show. They kept being told to stop and they wouldn't.

The usher would go away, they'd pull out their phone again and they'd start taping and everybody can see the light. Suddenly, I saw in the corner of my eye something flick and then the phone was knocked out of this person's hand. It seems like somebody rolled up a Playbill and threw it with a circus performer's precision and hit this phone and sent it several rows up, and that put an end to it. There are also theater vigilantes out there, so be careful.

Alison Stewart: Oh, Joe, that is hilarious. Thank you.

Jackson McHenry: That's an incredible aim.

Alison Stewart: Incredible aim. Let's talk to Cynthia on the Upper East Side, who has an interesting question. I think you might be able to feel this one, Jackson. Cynthia, thanks for calling in.

Cynthia: I'm even a little uncomfortable asking the question, but I'm curious--

Alison Stewart: It's okay.

Cynthia: -about what you would do. A number of years ago I went to see Come from Away when it first came out. There was a gentleman, some people thought maybe he had come in with too much to drink, I don't know, but he was crying so hysterically and shaking for a long time that nobody in the surrounding rows could hear anything. The actions were a little tough to follow as it was, but everybody feared like, "Did he know somebody, a firefighter or somebody who passed during 9/11?" I ended up going to see the show a second time just because I couldn't hear. What would be an appropriate [unintelligible 00:26:18]?

Alison Stewart: That's so interesting. That's hard. What are you thinking, Jackson?

Jackson McHenry: I'm sort of on the level of just-- if you're sitting near them just, "Are you okay? Can I get you a handkerchief or something?" Or that kind of thing, offering consolation and checking in. That is quite hard. I think the sense of, it might be good to-- Ushers, hopefully, are trained in these situations in a way. If the theaters they're working for are doing their jobs well and if there's a way to wave one over to just say, "There's this man. Is there a way to check on him or offer something?" Because in a way, maybe he has a deeply felt emotional reaction to this story and we want to allow that, but also just maybe nudge them to be aware of the intensity and volume of their reaction.

Alison Stewart: Yes. I feel like ushers these days have so much on them. They remind me of the way flight attendants have to do so many-- they have to wear so many different hats. "Turn off your cell phone. Please don't videotape." I have to be honest, I've seen some ushers who have been really on it, who take it very, very seriously, so I applaud any of the ushers out there who are dealing with the general public right now. Let's talk to Morris from Westchester. Hi, Morris, thanks for calling All Of It.

Morris: Hey guys. This is such an interesting conversation. I've never heard one like it on the radio, so it's great. I'm a snooty New York theatergoer for sure. I know it's not very inviting, but people should follow rules. Even the Blue Man group type of thing, the blue men should be in charge really of what's going on at the end of the day, in my opinion. My story is that I went to Spring Awakening with its original cast, and it was in a theater where I was in the center of an aisle, but it was a long way to the end of the aisle and there was no way out really.

It was very tightly packed. I said to the New Yorker theatergoer woman next to me, "I really feel sorry for those people who bought tickets right on stage because what if you have to go to the bathroom in the middle of the show? You can't do it." She opened her eyes really wide and she looked sideways at me and she said, "Neither can you."

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Morris, thanks for calling. What is the etiquette for leaving during a performance? Is it emergency-only?

Jackson McHenry: I think so. Especially if you're going to disrupt that many people that you-- It is sort of emergency-only and hopefully the performances are structured in a way that you have time, the acts are not endless. If you really do have to, just being as quiet as possible and just whispering and saying, "I'm sorry." If you are someone who is allowing someone out, I just take the approach of assuming they have a really good reason for having to get out and moving your legs to the side and doing whatever you can to help it go quickly.

Alison Stewart: Elliott Forest, you know his voice from WKXR has called in. Hi, Elliott.

Elliott Forest: Hey, Alison, how are you? This is a story I could not have believed unless I was really there. Second act, Glengarry Glen Ross, David Mamet, there's a lot of foul mouth words in every act, but the first act goes by, the audience behaves. The second act comes up, Liev Schreiber has this huge monologue, it's filled with expletives, somebody on the first row yells out, "Watch your mouth."

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: Oh my God.

Elliott Forest: Liev Schreiber turns and looks at the person completely in character and then just continues his monologue. I have no idea what that person was thinking. I have no idea what that was about.

Alison Stewart: I love that story, Elliott. Thank you for calling in. I'm going to pivot on a little more serious note. What if you are watching something and it is bringing up something in you and you feel like you have to leave? Is that appropriate? I watched Slave Play and I saw a lot of people walk out.

Jackson McHenry: I think it's appropriate to honor your own response to something if it's bringing up emotions that you just don't want to deal with, if you're just so low of it. In a way, that is fine. In a way, it's saying that's how you're responding to the show, and there are some shows that just inspire walkouts.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Liz from Maplewood, New Jersey. Hi, Liz, thanks for calling All Of It.

Liz: Hi there. I took a group of students to a show a few years ago, we were invited by a funding sponsor and we were excited. We sat in the row and one of my students had more hair that was big and one of the group sponsors was sitting behind that student. I could hear that she was frustrated because it was difficult to see the stage performers from behind the hair. It's not really an appropriate thing to-- I don't think to talk to someone about their personal appearance being an issue but what do you think about that?

Alison Stewart: Interesting, if somebody is sitting in front of you and well, hats, no, but maybe has big hair, maybe he has a large afro, maybe he's really tall. That's a sticky one.

Jackson McHenry: That's a tough-- I think if there's a way to move your own body and see what the sight lines are possible but also, maybe if you're able to start a conversation with someone and just make them aware of the fact that they're sitting in front of you or behind you and hopefully, there's a level of accommodation. If you are someone who is tall or has a lot of hair or whatever, being aware of the fact of your presence in the space too is crucial, but it is something that you want to be very careful about because it's so much about personal expression experience.

Alison Stewart: You may not have the answer for this, this came to the top of mind. Do you have any recourse with the theater? I'm just curious. I wonder if you find yourself in a seat and your view is blocked because of another patron and there's nothing you can do about it, per se. I wonder if that's-- I'm curious if anybody knows. Do you know?

Jackson McHenry: I don't know, actually. That is something-- In a way, it is on the theater to have a design for their seating so that people have views. It's a lot of times in these older Broadway theaters, they're just not built for our modern lives in many ways but not necessarily dealt with some of the best sight lines. There are places you can go online to just see what the sight line might be from your theater, but you really you'd hope and that is potentially something you could bring up with a letter to the box office just about the way that you've sat, this is just not-- an average human in front of me blocks too much.

Alison Stewart: Somebody said, "Why don't they put a page in the Playbills or theatre etiquette." You say that some have.

Jackson McHenry: Some have, but it's not a universal thing and they have more recently. I think the idea was maybe one month of where there was a Playbill that had just general etiquette, and it's certainly something that a lot of nonprofit theatre companies and off-Broadway have been trying to explore more of. Just to give everyone a baseline sense of, "Here are our rules," so that you are all on the same page about what they are and don't feel like you're all in the dark, which is so crucial.

Alison Stewart: Our phone lines are still full, so we'll take a quick break and take more of your calls about theatre etiquette. This is All Of It.

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Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. My guest is Jackson McHenry, a critic at Vulture and New York Magazine. The Tony Awards are this weekend so we thought it'd be a good time to have a conversation about theater etiquette. This doesn't have to be just for Broadway theaters, this can be for smaller theaters. Actually, in smaller theaters, you probably need to have better etiquette because you're right up next to people. Let's see if we can take a call. Beryl is calling in from the Upper West Side. Hi, Beryl.

Beryl: Hi. Well, my issue is people screaming and yelling after someone sings. It's just so much noise that you lose the play. I saw Into the Woods and what was the other one, Six, and the people just kept cheering, cheering, cheering and it was impossible.

Alison Stewart: That's so interesting. Beryl, thank you for calling. That has happened in a couple of shows where-- There's always the showstopper, but it does seem like it's gotten to be almost-- I don't want-- No. How do I say it? It's not like [unintelligible 00:34:52] fuddy-duddy, out of control, but sometimes you're like, "Okay, we're in this play. I would like to stay in the play."

Jackson McHenry: One of the things I was talking to an actor friend about is there's often a point in a big solo where an actor is going and they're hitting a note and they're in their straight tone and people start applauding before they shift into [unintelligible 00:35:11]. It's always like, "We want to hear the full note." A lot of these songs are typically built with a button where there'll be a cymbal crash or a drum or something right at the end that is supposed to trigger when the applause will start and you're like, "Wait off. Wait until we've gotten the emotional expression of what the song is supposed to mean before we start shouting and making it impossible to hear what the actor is actually doing."

Alison Stewart: Yes, we had somebody ask us about when it turns from enthusiasm to-- I think the way this was noise pollution, when you're really really-- There's an energy in the room and then it goes too far. I remember interviewing, and I want to say it was Kenny Leon, he talked to his actors about just physically having eye contact with each other or they kind of knew it was their job to move it forward. I don't know if you've heard that as well.

Jackson McHenry: No, I think a lot of it is also on the director and on the production line, what kind of environment they want to foster through the performances, through the musical cues. Something like Six, for instance, is designed to be a pop concert and feel like a pop concert and I think probably encourages more rowdiness because of that and maybe perhaps to the detriment of fully understanding the lyrics or fully getting the story.

In other productions of musicals like Into the Woods, you imagine they're at least trying to make it a little less participatory because there's more story to tell. I think that's something that is of concern for us in the audience but also I imagine we should think about it as a concern for the artistic choices and what they are trying to say and how they are managing to get us.

Alison Stewart: Do you want to know what happened a little bit at the end of my story before we wrap?

Jackson McHenry: Oh, yes.

Alison Stewart: Because a couple of people have asked already. The younger pair stayed but only after the famous couple told them that they should say thank you.

Jackson McHenry: Wow. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: I know. It's something very chilling.

Jackson McHenry: Ooh, that's chilling.

Alison Stewart: Exactly. Bah. [laughs]

Jackson McHenry: Oh, wow.

Alison Stewart: Exactly. That is what's backed this segment. Jackson, you have been a terrific help. Thanks to all of our listeners who called in. Some people called in with tips, some people called in with great stories that made us laugh, made us cringe. Thank you so much for being in the studio.

Jackson McHenry: Thank you for having me.

Alison Stewart: We really appreciate you taking the time.

Jackson McHenry: I'm really chilled and thrilled by all of these stories.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: We'll talk to you soon.

 

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