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Alison Stewart: It's tea time here on All Of It and as we are focusing this hour on tea, how to prepare it, where to buy it, and a little bit of history. That's where we're going to start today. No, we're not going to talk all about the Boston Tea Party, except to note that the 342 chests of tea dumped into the harbor were imported from China. This is important because the historical roots of tea lie in Asia where the drink has been a significant part of Chinese and Japanese culture for centuries as medicine and ceremonially.

Europeans were introduced to tea through the British and Dutch East India trading companies and quickly became enamored with the product. Their tea addiction led to conflict war and the creation of a new colonial product, black tea. Joining me now to walk us through some of the history of tea is Charlene Wang de Chen, the founder of Tranquil Tuesdays, an online resource to help people connect with tea culture. She also wrote the piece about the history of tea for Smithsonian Magazine. Charlene, welcome to the show.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Thank you for having me here.

Alison Stewart: I want to ask about a piece you wrote called It's Time to Decolonize Tea. What do you mean by that?

Charlene Wang de Chen: Thank you for asking about that. I think that one of the interesting things about tea is that the way most people drink tea in North America and Europe is still tea that's very much a product of a colonial history. The way that tea is produced and drunk in the West is very much a product of making these plantations that were built for colonial wealth in European countries.

Alison Stewart: Let's go all the way back. As far as we can tell, what are some of the first cultures to drink tea?

Charlene Wang de Chen: Well, the tea plant is indigenous to the countries that are now China, Myanmar, and India. There's that region that overlaps that area. Tea history as recorded is first recorded in Chinese records as early back as the 3rd century BC. China had a long history of tea culture, and then Japan. When there were some Japanese monks who were coming to China to learn about Zen Buddhism, they discovered tea and the tea culture in China in the 12th century.

Alison Stewart: I thought it was so interesting in digging into why certain teas are certain ways. The way tea is produced is part of what gives it its distinction. For example, explain to people how green tea is grown and what makes green tea leaves unique.

Charlene Wang de Chen: The thing is that for all different types of tea, like green tea, black tea, oolong tea, white tea, they're all from the same plant. You could have a green tea or a black tea from the same plant. It's really about how you process it. It's about levels of oxidation. Green tea is a tea that's not really oxidized. They used heat to seal off the oxidation process very early on, and that's why it's green.

A black tea or a darker oolong is a tea leaf that has been allowed to oxidize longer. It's a similar process of when you cut an apple and you let it out and you see that the color changes.

Alison Stewart: What about when we get into things like white tea?

Charlene Wang de Chen: White tea is, again, could be the same plant. A lot of times now these different producers are specializing their cultivar and type of leaf to optimize for the type of tea they're trying to finish with, but in theory, you could make a white tea with the same leaf also. White tea is withered slightly, gently, and then it's minimally oxidized also.

Alison Stewart: When we think about tea culturally, did drinking tea signify anything about stature or position?

Charlene Wang de Chen: Yes. In the beginning of the recorded history of tea in Chinese culture, it was a medicine, and then it became an elite pastime. Starting in the 8th century, there were already many records of this elite culture, like tea competitions, literary traditions, songs. There was a whole culture around it. Then it did become also an everyday thing. In the 16th and 17th century, well, more like 17th and 18th century in Europe, it was like the ultimate flex. Having tea was such a status symbol.

Alison Stewart: Matcha. We hear people talk about matcha tea quite a bit. How is matcha tea used in Japanese culture?

Charlene Wang de Chen: Matcha tea is the green tea leaf that is produced like a green tea, but then it's grounded up like a powder. You're basically, ingesting the whole leaf as opposed to just an infusion when you're doing other teas where you're just getting the liquid. You're ingesting the whole leaf. Matcha tea was first used as a way to help people meditate for monks and that's how that was discovered.

A Japanese monk named Isai went to China as a Zen Buddhist monastery and he noticed these people were drinking a special tea to help them stay alert from meditation. That's what he brought back and that tradition has been encoded in Japan. It was started together with the spiritual tradition of Buddhism and it has that spiritual element. There's also a very elaborately codified ritual called Cha Dao in Japan. That's not necessarily about Buddhism per se, but it has a spiritual, very mindful element to it.

Alison Stewart: I'm fascinated about the spiritual part of this. Is the preparation of it part of the spiritual practice? I heard you say about the idea of drinking tea to remain alert so that you can be engaged with your meditation. Is it a practical function or is it about ritual or some combination?

Charlene Wang de Chen: I think it's a little bit of both. I'm not exactly an expert on 12th Century's and Buddhism and tea, so I'm going to say that upfront, but I know with the contemporary Japanese Cha Dao, the whole ceremony from where you pick you're going to have in the tea hut, what flowers you're going to have at this. The preparation, the boiling of the water, it's the whole element from beginning to end, the whole sensory and who you're inviting. It's a social element too.

It's all those elements of enjoyment and sensual and stillness that help you enjoy the tea and I think bring you to a more elevated state of sensory awareness.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Charlene Wang de Chen, she's the founder of Tranquil Tuesdays. It's a tea resource site. She's also a journalist who writes about food and tea. What was the role of tea in your life?

Charlene Wang de Chen: I'm fourth-generation Chinese-American. Interestingly, tea was not a huge part of my family's drinking and food culture. One of my grandmas did always have a thermos of weak Southern Chinese oolong tea on her kitchen counter, but it was a background drink. No one was having a special moment with tea on a regular basis in our family. It was something that's on the dim sum lazy Susan. One of my grandmas who grew up in Shanghai offered me Lipton teabag once. [laughter] You know what I mean?

It was pretty casual in my family life, but my parents did take us to a British-style afternoon tea when I was around 11 and that made a huge impression on me. At that age, I was super into Victorian culture and history, so for me, that was a part of that whole romantic aesthetic. That really made me curious. I was always interested in tea since then, but I would say the moment that really made me more obsessed with tea was when I was living in China and I was at a meeting and they served this tea and it was so unlike anything I've ever had before.

It was so fresh, so soft. It really just woke me up. I have no idea what that meeting was about anymore. I can't tell you, but I can tell you all about that cup of tea. After that, I was wondering, as someone who already liked tea, how come I had not had tea like that before? I really just focused my time and energy to learn as much as I could about tea.

Alison Stewart: Why do you think tea is having a little bit of a moment right now?

Charlene Wang de Chen: Tea has been having a moment for a couple of centuries. Tea has been an integral part of many cultures for over a thousand years. Why it's having a particular moment in America right now, I think everything just goes in cycles. Someone was telling me how green tea was really trendy and I was like, "Actually, green tea was really popular in America in the 18th century." Everything that's old has come back.

I think with digital life and the rush, more disconnected lifestyle that is common in America right now, that tea does provide a moment of sensual awareness.

Alison Stewart: That's what I think.

Charlene Wang de Chen: It's a moment where you slow down. I think I've talked to many people who their own personal rituals of making tea, they describe it as a moment for themselves. Then the other element is tea has always been a very social activity. It's always been a way to connect with others in a gentle and soft way that is often quieter and just more relaxing. I think every day now, everyone's always seeking for those moments of quiet, you can exhale, spend some time meaningfully with real people in real life.

Alison Stewart: Maybe that is what's actually having the moment, that idea of human connection.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Maybe. I think everyone's quite hungry for that right now.

Alison Stewart: You mentioned high tea. As a young person being introduced to high tea, how did that come about? What is the background of British high tea? I always found it to be like a dessert delivery system. I love that.

Charlene Wang de Chen: I think it is now. The history of tea in Britain is very much a history of their colonial empire. When you think about that era, which was the 18th and 19th century, the taxes for tea in the 19th century of Britain financed, I think, over 100% of the Royal Navy. It was an essential part of their military and political systems. Not just that, it also was part of their bigger transnational trading systems. They gave silver to China for tea, they also were trading sugar, cotton, enslaved people.

Those are all entwined trading systems, systems of exploitation. That also informs how tea culture developed in Britain. That this tea was also with sugar while their sugar was a huge crop for them. That is a part of why they're always connected. If you think of British tea culture, people in Britain take their tea with sugar, but also a lot of sugary pastries.

Alison Stewart: When we talk about tea as a form of trade, a form of money, also a form of power in many ways, would you explain to our audience how the tea trade helped lead to the opium wars between China and Britain?

Charlene Wang de Chen: Ever since tea has evolved from a medicinal piece or item to a structured commodity or something that was cultivated at scale, it's always been a source of taxes, power, and political systems. Even in ancient China. There is an ancient Chinese trade of Chinese tea for Tibetan horses and that was the horses for their military. That's been part of the story of tea from the beginning. I know we like to think of beautiful moments of quiet and relaxation, but there's this other side also. With Britain, Britain wanted tea. It was so popular in its empire.

They wanted tea from China. China very closely guarded how to make tea. They were the only ones who could really make it. Up until the mid-19th century, no one really knew how to make tea. The UK was buying-- I'm sorry, let me just go back one step. When the UK first approached the Imperial Chinese government, they were like, "We'd like to trade with you," and the Chinese government was like, "No, not really," but they did want silver, so they're like, "Okay, give us silver, we'll give you some tea." That's how that started.

Then it was such a quantity that Britain was running out of silver, so they needed to figure out how to get more silver and they started an illicit trade of opium where they grew opium in India, which was their colonial possession at that time, and they smuggled opium into China. China was not thrilled about that. I would describe the Opium War almost as if the-- Okay, so in China, the Imperial forces, they seized a shipment of British opium and they destroyed it. Britain took that as--

Alison Stewart: As a war.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Yes. I almost analogize that to if the DEA seized a drug cartel's drug stash, and then the drug cartel declared war in America. That's pretty much a story, and so it's not a perfect analogy, but it's a very similar dynamic to think about how the opium wars started. There were two Opium Wars, one in 1839, one in 1842. Because China lost the Opium War, Britain was able to open up the ports and force these trading ports with China and that really scaled the Chinese tea trade.

Then around that same time, Britain figured out how to try to make tea in India, a place they already owned. There's a whole story about how they committed trade espionage, I guess. They didn't really know what they were doing. That's a first part is they didn't really know what they were doing. They were trying to make green tea or oolong teas like they had been importing from China. They tried to bring lots of different Chinese people over to help them, it wasn't really working.

The other thing is they couldn't get the labor they needed, so they started kidnapping and forcing force exploitation of labor in India. They created these very brutal plantation systems. They were very clearly plantations. They were modeled after the sugar plantation system in the Caribbean and the southern cotton plantation in the American South. That's how the British tea industry started in India and later in Eastern Africa.

Alison Stewart: We're going to start to take some calls about how to make tea and have questions for you as well, but just before we break, I want to shout out that black tea wasn't a thing in Chinese tea culture. How was black tea created?

Charlene Wang de Chen: I think it's important to note that people throughout history have been calling tea from different things from tea from China black tea. A lot of traders, they didn't know the difference between oolong black teas. If you look at colonial records, most of those tea names are outdated names we don't use anymore. They were like clumsy transliterations of local dialects or Chinese. A lot of times traders didn't know the difference of green or black. A lot of oolong teas can look sort of black, so there's that.

They were trying to make oolong tea in India when the British started. They didn't have quite the craftsmanship and centuries of know-how. They were making these really fully oxidized teas that were very bitter and hard to drink, but then it turns out that the market for that was okay. They created a market for that. There's a long campaign, they use a lot of racial propaganda and white supremacy to try to convert drinkers. British drinkers really did like the Chinese green teas and oolong teas, but they created a demand for it, first of all.

Second of all, this really bitter strong black tea was actually well suited for the style of drinking tea with milk and sugar. It was something that they were not necessarily trying to make, but they did. Then later, they didn't realize there was a market for it, and so they asked China, "Can you make more of this?" and China's like, "Yes, sure." It's a really totally new invention, black tea. It's almost a late 19th-century early 20th-century invention.

Alison Stewart: We're discussing the history of tea. Listeners, we want to invite you to be part of the conversation. What questions do you have about the best ways to brew and drink tea? Maybe you're a loose-leaf curious and want some tips on how to get started or maybe you have a tea brand you particularly like or you're a tea aficionado and you'd like to share some of your thoughts about tea drinking and tea preparation. 212-433-9692, 212-433-WNYC. Our phone lines are now open to take your calls.

You can also text to us at this number, 212-433-9692. Our social media @allofitwnyc is available as well. We'll have more tea talk after a quick break.

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This is All of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. We're talking tea with Charlene Wang de Chen founder of Tranquil Tuesdays, an online resource to help people connect with tea culture. We talked about the history of tea and now it is time to get practical. All right, you've got a list, Charlene, of five ways to up your tea game.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Yes, I have some basic ways that ascend in difficulty. The first one, you don't have to buy any new tea. You can just pay attention to your water temperature and your steeping time. I think the number one mistake people make when they're making green tea is they're doing it in boiling water. You definitely don't want to do that. That's what makes your tea taste like burnt, bitter, astringent. For green tea, you want almost 175 degrees water. Significantly less than boiling, which is 212 degrees.

I would say that's the first thing. You want to think about temperature for green tea, especially oolong you want a little bit less than boiling. Black tea you can even do even a little bit under boiling also. The other thing is steep time. I know the common ways you throw a bag in, you put in boiling water, you leave, and then a couple of minutes later, you're like, "Oh, yes, that cup of tea." I want you to be there, present with your tea. With green tea, you want maybe a minute tops, less sometimes depending on the proportion you're using.

Same for black and oolong. When you leave it for a long time in really hot water, that's when you get that really astringent feeling in your mouth. That's the first easy way, temperature and steep time. You can look that up online.

Alison Stewart: Question from the class.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: If you have one of those automatic tea kettles that pops. Is it popping at boiling or is it popping at what's a better temperature slightly below boiling?

Charlene Wang de Chen: I guess it depends on each one. I have a kettle that you can print it. You can--

Alison Stewart: Program it?

Charlene Wang de Chen: Yes, program it for type of tea. Also, each manufacturer will tell you based on their type of tea.

Alison Stewart: Maybe check that when you're buying an electric kettle.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Yes, that's right. I guess the main thing is you're going to start thinking about this. I'm sure most people have never thought about temperature or time. That's the first easy way to upgrade your tea experience without buying anything new. The second thing is looking for whole leaves and this is going to be a huge difference for you. If you're drinking not whole leaves to whole leaves, it's going to be black and white to color. You want it to look like an actual leaf, like a cartoon picture of a leaf.

The most common industrial way of producing tea is CTC which is cut, tear, curl, which is as violent as it sounds. What that produces are little tiny tea pellets, but you want something that's a whole leaf, and that could be in a pyramid teabag, that could be however loose leaf, but I think if you go from cutup tea dust to whole leaf, you're going to have a huge difference in your tea experience. The third way to really upgrade is to then, if you're already at whole leaf, why don't you just go to loose leaf?

You want to give your tea a lot of room to expand, to infuse the water with a lot of ease, relaxation. You want your leaves to be as happy as possible. That's why sometimes tea balls are not great. They're constricting those leaves and not letting them expand and open and really release their flavor. Then the next two is what I would love every person to do, and this is where it gets a little more complicated. If people could try to explore an unflavored fresh tea as opposed to flavored teas.

I know flavored teas are very popular in America and Europe, and that is actually a colonial legacy, I'm sorry to say to everyone, because that's an easy way to mask lower tea qualities. I think that's another thing that's important to know is throughout history and up until today, the best teas don't leave Asia. The best market for the most high-quality teas is China and Japan, Korea. The teas don't really leave there. A lot of times, it's a lower-quality off-harvest that get exported.

The way that people mask that is these different flavorings and blends, but if you can try an unflavored tea, it will totally transform your relationship to tea because you'll be tasting the actual flavor of the tea leaf.

Alison Stewart: Where would I go in? Would I go to Chinatown to find?

Charlene Wang de Chen: You can go to Chinatown. There is a lot of different places. I would say the number one thing is you want to find someone who has a direct relationship with the grower. There are places here in New York City. Right near here is Té Company. She's a woman who works directly with Taiwanese oolong growers. There is Tea Shop. She works directly with some Chinese growers. There's Kettle Tea, which works directly with some Japanese growers. There are definitely lots of places and that's what the internet's made for.

I say the last thing is if you're ready to go full tea nerd, then it's waiting for seasonal crops from specific regions. Specific regions, seasonal crops. For me, if I want green tea, I have got to wait till the Spring harvest drops. Spring harvest is around April, May, and that comes usually into America by like end of May, early June. That's when the best green teas are hitting the market.

Alison Stewart: All right.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Our Phone lines are full.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Okay, let's do it. Let's go.

Alison Stewart: Let's roll some calls. Let's talk to Nicole from Pelham. Hi, Nicole, thanks for calling in.

Nicole: Oh, hi. How are you? I have just a comment, and then a funny story. The comment is that I love tea, and so a very dear friend for a housewarming gift, bought me this electric kettle with this long spout. It makes you pour more slowly and it's really beautiful, but it makes the tea taste different than when you just dump a bunch of hot water on top of the tea and let it sit. That's my first one. Then the second one, it's a funny story. I have a friend who's Turkish. He knows I love tea, so he made me Turkish tea.

It was delicious and I poured some milk and sugar in it and I said, "Oh, I love Turkish tea. It's so good," and h said, "That's not Turkish tea." I said, "What are you talking about? You just made it for me," and he said, "You put milk and sugar in it. It's not Turkish tea."

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Alison Stewart: Thank you for calling in. Let's talk to Anne from Peekskill. Hi, Anne.

Anne: Hi. Good morning, Alison. Good morning, Charlene. Actually, it's afternoon, isn't it? I'm sorry. The day's moving away too fast. As you can tell from my accent, I'm an ex-Brit, and so I grew up with a family who made tea all the time, and it was always made in a teapot, of course, but now, since I've been living here for so many years, I got turned onto coffee, and then decided a couple of years ago that I could no longer drink coffee.

I was feeling too high from the caffeine and getting a few heart palpitations, so I went back to tea.

I discovered, and I don't even remember how I discovered it, but I discovered this wonderful tea from South Africa. It's called rooibos. It's spelled rooibos, but it's from the red bush tree. They make this amazing tea that has a lovely reddish-orange color when you make it, and it's just delicious.

I have it every morning and I still feel like I'm starting the day off well without all the caffeine. I just wanted to mention that to you. I don't know whether Charlene knows of it. I'm sure you do since you've done all the research. It really is a wonderful tea.

Alison Stewart: Let me get Charlene on the conversation. Charlene, are you aware of it?

Charlene Wang de Chen: Yes. I'm glad you found the right beverage for you that's uncaffeinated. Yes, rooibos is a very popular non-caffeinated tea, but I say that with an asterisk because, technically, it's not tea. Technically, to be tea, it has to have leaves from the Camellia taliensis plant, and rooibos, as you mentioned, is a red bush that's native or indigenous to South Africa. That's technically not tea, but drinking in the manner of tea.

Alison Stewart: We have a text. "In India, actually, the best quality here is exported to the US and the West because they can fetch high prices. My family in India has a harder time finding top-quality Darjeeling teas and I can find here in the US." Another text. "Hi, Alison. I'm from Pakistan, where we drink tea with milk and sugar. My preference is honey. I know this is sacrilege, but it's what I grew up with and has lots of nice associations for me. I find it to be very soothing in the evening, and it reminds me of family and home," which is probably the-

Charlene Wang de Chen: That's so nice.

Alison Stewart: -most important thing.

Charlene Wang de Chen: One thing about the Darjeeling, I'm sorry to hear that, but I think that's completely indicative of how Darjeeling was set up. It was set up as a colonial industry that was meant for export. It was meant to export the best quality teas, unfortunately. That was how the tea industry was started in India, was for exporting. I think things will hopefully change, and then the best quality Darjeeling can also be available in India.

Alison Stewart: We have a lot of texts about teapots. What is the best metal for your pot or kettle to heat the water for tea, iron, aluminum, stainless steel? Someone else wanted specifically to know the tea kettle you have, the one that you can program.

Charlene Wang de Chen: I think I should be getting a cut from Cuisinart if that's true. Yes, I'd just use a Cuisinart one. The best is probably not an electric metal kettle, to be honest. I think the people who are really, really hardcore, the people who are infusing their own water with charcoal are really impartial to using gas to heat your water, maybe using a clay vessel or a stone vessel. It depends how nerdy and how far you want to go for optimizing your tea. Me personally, I just use an electric kettle because it's simple.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to, I'm going to say, Jeremy, who's calling in from Fort Lee on line 7. Hi, Jeremy, thank you for calling All of It.

Jeremy: Hello. Thank you very much for having me on. I absolutely love tea and this is such a great call to be on. I do have a quick question. If you are going to add a sweetener to your tea, is there one that you would prefer over the other? I did want to also shout out my favorite tea place in New York. It's McNulty's Tea and Coffee down in Greenwich Village. They've been there since 1895.

Charlene Wang de Chen: That's great. In terms of sweeteners, I'm used to drinking tea without sweetener. Personally, that's the tradition of Asian teas is not usually taken with sweetener, but when I drink herbal teas, which are technically not teas tisanes, when I drink herbal tisanes, I usually just use honey, but I think whatever works for you.

Alison Stewart: Claudia is calling in from Brooklyn. Hi, Claudia, thank you so much for calling in.

Claudia: Hi. My call is about store-bought tea bags. Are those even acceptable to drink, and are they all the same? Which one would you recommend?

Charlene Wang de Chen: I think if it brings you pleasure, it is acceptable. When I have been put in a position where I have to choose between tea bags, I would always choose an herbal tea bag just because, like I said, they're not technically tea, and herbs can be cut up, and it doesn't seem to compromise it in the same way, but yes, there is whole leaf tea bags out there and there's teabag technology has improved significantly. I think whatever is working for you is fine, but I would say try to seek out whole leaf and try to seek out an unscented tea.

Alison Stewart: We're getting a lot of questions about decaffeinated tea.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Okay, right, let's talk about that.

Alison Stewart: What is it and can you recommend one that's good?

Charlene Wang de Chen: All tea has caffeine in it. It's in the tea leaf. I want just to quickly say there's a myth out there that certain types of tea has less or more caffeine. That's just not true. The caffeine level is not affected by the type of tea. What determines caffeine in the tea leaf is the cultivar, the growing conditions. When there's nitrogen and fertilizer, sometimes it has higher caffeine. When the season was picked, plucking standard, there's so many things.

You could have a black tea and a green tea manufactured from the same leaf, the same bush, and the same day, and it'll have the same caffeine levels. That's one thing I want to put out there. You're going to always have some caffeine when you're drinking true tea. Herbals, no caffeine. No tea and no caffeine. In terms of decaffeinated tea, I would be a little careful about that because the process of decaffeination, you're basically stripping all the nutrients and the flavor away too to get true decaffeination.

I would say if you're seeking to have no caffeine, I would drink herbal blends, herbal tisanes, maybe not tea, tea. Then the other thing to note is the caffeine in tea has another element in the tea leaf called l-theanine, which is an amino acid. It has an alpha frequency band that relaxes the mind and produces a different sort of caffeine high. I'm sure everyone's noticed, when you drink tea, even matcha, which has tons of caffeine, if you want that jolt of caffeine, just drink that whole leaf down.

A green tea spring, high nitrogen, shaded tea leaf grown, you're going to get your caffeine, but it feels different when you drink a matcha versus drinking an espresso.

Alison Stewart: We have a question from Glenn from Plymouth. A lot of people have this question. "How long is the shelf life? Does a close bag or open bag or is it different for loose tea? I have tons of tea I brought back from China and wondered if there's an expiration date."

Charlene Wang De Chen: Yes. It is a natural product, and like most natural products, it's best within six months to a year. That's when it's optimal. I'm going to tell you, I bet, at most 99% of tea on a supermarket shelf is over a year old, but you want to also store it well. You want to keep it dark. You want to keep it away from light, away from moisture. You want to store it in the ways that you would store any good olive oil or nice spices.

Alison Stewart: Someone says they got what they call a proper teapot for her Christmas and have big plans for becoming more of a tea nerd but they wondered what the standard water-to-tea ratio. Is it eight ounces of water to one teaspoon of tea leaves? Is it varied depending on tea?

Charlene Wang De Chen: Yes, it varies depending on tea leaf and tea size. I think the general rule of thumb is three grams of tea for eight ounces of water. I know I just use two different metrics systems there, I'm sorry about that. Really just experiment with what works for you. Some people like it stronger, some people like it weaker. I do it by sight and color, but that's the general proportion.

Alison Stewart: We do have a question from Instagram about your thoughts on boba tea.

Charlene Wang De Chen: Oh, great. Boba tea is a total whole other tea culture. I think of it as a late 20th-century tea culture that is its own offshoot. If you look at a tea emoji, if you put in tea in your emoji keyboard, you get an Asian style of green tea, you get the hot beverage with the black tea, which is interchangeable with coffee, and you get a boba, and you get a teapot.

Alison Stewart: I love this text. "I'm from Kenya, a former British colony, and we brew our tea. Tea is so entrenched in the culture and is offered when you walk into any Kenyan house. We call it chai. Growing up, my grandma had a kettle brewing throughout the day. We had sugar and milk to it along with lemongrass."

Charlene Wang De Chen: Oh, lemongrass, that sounds great.

Alison Stewart: It's delicious. I love the memories this is bringing up for people.

Charlene Wang De Chen: I think also tea is such a huge part of hospitality. That's a huge cornerstone of hospitality, and many cultures throughout the world is offering tea to guests.

Alison Stewart: Want to say big thanks to Charlene Wang De Chen for sharing her expertise. She's the founder of Tranquil Tuesdays, a tea resource site. Thank you so much for being with us.

Charlene Wang de Chen: Thank you.

Alison Stewart: Really appreciate it. Thanks to everybody who called in.

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Alison Stewart: We're going to continue our tea talk. Food and culture journalist, Caroline Shin wrote about a few of her favorite tea shops across New York City. She wrote it for Eater and she joins us to share why they made the list, and we'll take your calls shouting out your favorite tea shops. 212-433-9692.

 

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