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I should like to take advantage of the so I put through such a small group of people and we are therefore be able to have a discussion with you instead of the speeches or reports we simply want to know what are you what interests you most in the art of the Moscow Art scene as to starts to miss it. And it would be interesting if you would. Ask us the questions and you know all our names we would try to sweep the streets I suppose possible to explain those things to you which are not adequately clear to you so I ask you gentlemen don't be shy that's two questions. Don't think what kind of question does no matter what you're interested in we will be happy to answer your questions. Please go ahead. My name is not all that Louis. I I have found that. It is more difficult to get intelligent question how the subject than it is to give an answer that there was recently a. Symposium in one of our best the other magazines on the Stanislav ski system and the questions that was sent to all of us had such flaws in the questions that was very difficult to answer them. Therefore I beg your indulgence if my question is a long one because I would rather try to ask an intelligent question than a short one. I would like to ask you to talk to us about a subject that has caused us a great deal of concern in this country. And that is what somebody yesterday referred to as the external work and watch one of the gentlemen refer to as the image. We our results of those of us who have worked in some. Aspect of the system consist when we have to play a play that has a period problem or style problem in other words something other than our natural daily behavior. The results seem to divide themselves into two parts either. The actor is sole. Intent on feeling truthfully. That he tends to neglect the. External manifestations of this internal feeling if the part requires such manifestations in other words of its inverse or a costume period play etc. Or we have the kind of actors who have spent their whole times in studying movement period costume voice and so on but have only a nodding acquaintance with any internal work and therefore although they may give a very good superficial. Representation of the of the external characteristics one feels a sense of emptiness in their internal communication those are two choices my question is not over but I'll stop for the moment. Now those. Are. The serious actors who have worked in some form of the Stanislaw system or with somebody with some acquaintance with it who wish to improve their ability to deal with parts other than contemporary parts have very dutifully gone and taken voice lessons diction lessons dance lessons fencing lessons etc However And now we come to the sad part of it it turns out that although. They often have made good progress in their classes and if you went to the technique classes you would find that their voice ranges have approved that addiction has improved that their movement has improved but if they had originally had some problem of let's say to put a nice word on of ethnic speech let's say they spoke New York and their natural speech was. What do you do that for. And they now have to play a king or a prince and they have gone and taken the diction lessons they can usually say what do you do that for in the class but as a turned out and here's where I'm coming to my question when they have a part where this King or this prince from another time or another country gets excited and turns to his subjects suddenly he says I'm your King what do you do it for and back is he reverted again and all the lessons are out the window now my question is this in the Soviet Union. Is there some provision made for the into we. Alll the internal and external techniques in the classrooms and in the rehearsal's of the plays so that from the beginning as one is taught to but when playing a violin or piano or taking ballet lessons one learns one steps in a ballet class and those very steps come out in just cell there was a relationship it is not something which has to be pasted on later end of question. Stanislavski it was the first. In the history of the theory of art. The stablished the existence of two techniques external and internal techniques. Here considered either or both to be equally serious and cynically important external techniques such as development of the voice of the development of body movements physical movements overs. Is the All these are things which are necessary in order to. In order to embody incarnate everything which the actor experience is. Inside if you have any feelings. Then. Many opportunities for feeling the temperament but don't insufficient. There's not a complete actor is an imperfect actor therefore either technique is equally necessary to us and in our school we do make such a separation the discipline of course is an internal technique and. In order to avoid that feeling that it's expressing a question actually. That examination she shows wonderful. Physical limits but when he performs or loses everything. Very tight. Maintaining tight contact between. Teachers of the spirit discipline of acting. Always. Struggling against such a situation for example the teacher would give the students an excellent mark. And when he went back to perform on stage you know there's no medical control of the list. So we take this into consideration and give him a bad mark saying that he did not last as things that he should. So it seems to me that in the beginning the question was somewhat differently. Meaning that there are actors which prefer primary a primary consideration to external. Metamorphosis and less for the internal than on the contrary the. Fact. Pay more attention to turn a little more from external perfection this is actually true actors are divided to such categories. But the point is. A combination. Of that. Character. To copy. And externally selected character external characteristics should be learned. From the internal technique of the actor. To create. A logic system of behavior. And I said it is a. Good from within himself and some understand this to mean that one must always be himself and if I have to play Hamlet then I will say no I would not have killed the king therefore I am not able to play Hamlet. From himself on the basis of one's own feelings one must treat the logic behavior of the image of the character and the gains from this. From this. Person says that in such given circumstances how would I begin to live. With her so to. Acquire reflexes. Behavior and a new person. Can still exist logically within the framework of this newly developed logic. To become. So that when the person enters an internal. The life of the character actors talent and his creative nature begins to suggest to him certain characteristics of the part that children develops and works on for example. In our country there's a there's a play that's. Going to go on. A very stingy landowner. And there's a split. Pushkin lost a piece of paper. A piece of clean paper. For me as a performer this is a minor matter I would not be upset by the loss of such a paper but I could feel myself on logic or stage a man and I say suppose this were not a simple plane of paper. The last. Valuable documents money how would you go about searching in other with us and how would I go about searching for those materials what would I do for myself in order to find this item. I suppose I have found it and I don't search for everyone to believe that I'm really searching for and I'm a young. Person. So I continue my work having. Image then begin to acquire those characteristics traits which are layers of an old man again. Going down a certain logic of the behavior of some old man suppose if this were myself I would. Look for. The five and eight I know that I would not be able to John and I would have to jump gradually. Slowly gathering. Traits of logical character gradually a combination of become a nation of internal characteristics and external characteristics begin to be developed and when the proportion is achieved then. Back to the effect of the image created if you can copy an old man. Going to take him and show how an old man was. Having lost. The elements of his internal character and simply been with an old man then it would be. The most valuable element for the sake of which it is being played. In the majority of cases. In which some external in which these actors. Play great. Will usually be able to play some small. Army by. Performing excellently then. And such is not valuable. I should like. To the answer. To the question. Of instruction in school is. Set up in the following way. And I have to study before you. And if the first two years. Of training. Towards. Perfect such psychophysical. Capacities of the future actor. And stage motions. Splay cement. This is simply. Other than style. And other elements. Shortcomings are correct. Placement. Classical stance. Train training and experience without any additional concepts this all takes place during the first two years. But. The third and fourth years of training. These same. Studies and dancing physical places physical actions placement. These same courses additional elements are now introduced such for example is not simply dance steps or patterns but already. Certain styles of certain. The pub on the Poland is. Not only. These dances in costume long dresses crinoline dresses weaponry if it is if it was. Part of a. Some component of an ancient and the same is true. For physical movements for example when sensing. How to handle. It in the same way as this was done in those days when such weapons are used by people. Teaching. Curriculum. Only. The. Other modern planes or national classics but something understandable something easy and easily acquired the following. Shakespeare and Schiller. Acting manners. And finally we have a subject which simply means that it was acting. Students studying this study. Different. Images of the countries and very. Subject Matter that is not simply organic in the first two years but during the last two years. Remaining organic the true act acting person plus the addition. Stylistic and logical. Elements of knowledge from by their sponsors from the stairs from various countries and the. Question is itself a part of our system of education thank you. Yes I was satisfied with the answer. Yes I would like to just point out that I feel that one of the most important things that was said that was that the question that the actor asked themselves was how do I behave and then how does this character behave I think we're too inclined to say how do I feel or how does this character feel Thank you. The fun could be added to this case said. That each person has qualities he can be happy. Good. Sad slimy and so on. Qualities of a part of me painting being when you are given. Then. You understand which sides of your own you have to begin with only. Some serious character. Which sides of your character must develop. You must make one more outstanding more prominent in order to be able to play the given part. As. What it is strange in a speech for something distinctly. Generous even if you are a generous person you still have a small element of. Danger in this new blood and for this particular part you must develop that element in order to be able to play the part successfully it was difficult. In other words and it was a bit of a said that each person in the know help generous a person finding himself in some unusual circumstances. Can be stingy when I had occasion to work in the world of. Attempts to recall such moments when I was stingy. And I recall such difficult times were for example where there was a great deal of hunger starvation when every piece of bread was precious to one. And how we had it when how we had to hide these things. And so we had to kind of. How we had to try to avoid anyone else better needed oneself. Especially when. At the front of the. Other something we begin to understand. The trait that had to be put out of oneself. During the. Person behaves and from the person you enter into the fight so much that sometimes you get. Tied in such a person would behave. It seems to me that the still not understand me perfectly clearly. Speaking of a minor moment one of the small moment of. Personal in this case comes up I simply took a small segment of the role. Further work will be done on each side of the segments of the road with every rehearsal and this famous statement of that is love which. If you seek an evil person then seek for where in what he was good this was misunderstood son was he this seemed to be. All and all forgiving attitude if you are playing an evil person then show how good he is in order to more strictly underscore how evil he is this is the point is if pushed in his face pushed in his very stingy and he is afraid of who has come to him and when he understood that he can give him an opportunity to enrich himself to help him to make money. Then he said and for some of the hour for tea to be brought in and to bring a piece of bread which has been in his closet for three years old and. Is not stingy and the country has a very broad generous nature that he even decided to contribute to this piece of bread it's been there for three years already and when Judge of says that I have already had tea. Then he is very happy about it. And can have a moment in his life where he could pray to God when he would do anything but in this particular instance that I was speaking of a Speaking of a small narrow segment of the road not rolled into. It was not. Didn't need objects to evoke his imagination they're not necessarily objects can be created strictly in the imagination of the actor it's not necessary for any objects to be there but I really. Would say no matter what they bring him here he says if this were something how would I react what attitude would I have towards the subject. This is what he called the magic if from which creativity begins for example no I can begin. To. Rehearse a certain play here there were these tables and everything else and I would say what if this were a steamship on the ocean how would you know this is the whole point. Object strings are of no importance whatsoever or no significance whatsoever in this. Race. So. I think Mr Dog oncet the question it was not that I wanted to take the opposite side as a character I simply meant that by surrounding the actor from scene to scene with the stimulus which would continue to. Agitate him toward the character of stinginess with a variety of colors. That the. Actor seemed always to be only dependent I'm not saying he is the one and saying that the play then could be. Rehearsed from moment to moment in building a character like that I have the ceiling that once the character let's say in school once the character then is understood that he's free enough to behave under all circumstances. All situations so that he responds in character immediately and without the play really without the need of the play guiding him from time to don that he understands I don't mean that he's a good man when he prays to God I mean that he is free he's freed as he works from scene to scene so that he is able to be the character having gotten the stimulus I don't know if I could clear. Something is going wrong. If. It's working. Sometimes. Torture. Would. Bring. Rage inside of you with his picking but the moment that would understand that he has no other way out except to crawl through this particular no direction as an established himself would give their to full freedom he would lean back in his chair smile and be perfectly relaxed this is completely clear and there's no question that sometimes it's just. As well as a matter of the fact in. This culture not yet this cartoon and I'm a life of having the sculptor and I'm teaching here in an owner of City and I would be very interested and very grateful if I could learn something about the differences of the standards laughs theater and malicious exterior to. OF MY a hold of and a lot happened at the period and how the division came about and about the principles of speech. And if I've added to this today to add to this past. Ladies and gentlemen this is a very grave important and difficult question that is difficult to answer immediately First of all the differences here and methods of working on the parts on the performance that are differences in the principles of the static society neither Meyerhold nor to it of Stood Still they also developed they also evolved. And we were witness of the moment to the moment when my Hodes who having as in time having sought against the Arts Theatre as entire life although as is known he himself began his activity in the Moscow Art Dealer and my whole return to sender slapsticky said that he had returned to science last key to study again and he worked in Stanislavski is the theatre the opera and we saw how they sat for her soul together. This is not. Simply a site that my old had crossed out of his past and returned to Stanislavski know. Their paths it simply has to converge at some particular stage of their pets and understand the standing the methods because when Stanislaus says last became through understanding the image my hold said that to build it acting on your own psychological feelings is just like building a building and send it would still scramble winsomeness loves to head examined his feelings and realize that one still must approach from actions then my whole and senseless is used converge again concerning to it or if one takes to it of for example in the nineteen twelve nineteen fourteen and they had over nine hundred forty as we learned these are two completely different artists artists. In that period. This was an aesthetic. When everything was built by rhythm and external movements with a total ignoring of any development of the internal. Image psychology of acting was completely discarded. Called Art Theatre and naturalistic. Is the producer of the. Tragedy this is a very. Realistic and exceptionally expressive performance this was a very different. This is why if one is to speak of the difference in their methods of. This is a very complex question and probably would require a great deal more to explain to elicit questions. Break has been suggested for a few minutes. I would like to know. But there it you'll sink also that one of the greatest man calls difficulties was exactly because he was unable to make an actor to be in the live human being on stage and also that without knowing him Sills made a hole of the was not so far away from what's the news last year that he actually gave emphasis lately made hald was for movements for actions not exactly the ways that his lust is so weird and it was he was out knowing that this is what to the other was a stimulus to the back to evolutions But however he did not know how to do it as the news task is that true. So if the. Mayor holds direction in general. His method could not be missed this is what all these experts in. Art. Who are worried about today would say one thing tomorrow another and a day after he would change is if he was completely but perhaps what is. What is characteristic of the nature of such directors is. That they are searching for the external for this was the importance of the country. The theater of feeling of living apart where on the scene the spirit of the human spirit the essence of the human spirit with. Wouldn't be prevalent on the stage and there would be no such preponderance for dominance of the external form as was the case with and here may hold in this is the major difference between the approaches of my own hold and that is laced with Besides the new system was a. System which was constantly developing such a rational and natural development of the truth of the art of the theatre besides. We know that my whole. Would. Perform one player in one spirit another play. Just in a different one for example like naturalistic approach in some instances and another but my hold in the middle of a primarily theater of the image is not the living of a part in which is that his legacy was predominant this is the primary difference between the two. Neither nor. Left a legacy of any school or method at all nor did they leave. In order that their teaching result in any. Indian actors such actors as above out of order in ski. Have nothing in common with my hold school who are students of his they are simply very talented actors who are different from the from the way they were as students under my. Lungs he created a school of acting of the art of the theater and. System an integrated system he created a theatre of living. Where the primary questions are questions of the embodying the human spirit and not just with any form. Of the director's was. You can't say of course that my hold was not a successful actor. And therefore you. Had to invent certain systems of course he was very talented he was that actor and appellate of the Richter. And his his instructions as director to the actors were work of genius when we are recalling the now we're in no way deprecate his talents. But a lot of old opposed. To the system of Stanislavski into the system of attention and concentration on the internal world he opposed this with his own system this is a system which as you know is called is at the biomechanics he said that an act does not have to live on the stage that this is an incorrect it is a sickness he said this is a pathological. Concept. In order to have the audience receive a definite impression of what the actor feels. It must be necessary to perform certain definite actions this is how he while he worked out his own system his system of movement this of course was a mechanistic movement and my hurled himself finally admitted when he returned just in this last he said that I think he was tried not. To go from the Internet as you were doing but I was going from the exterior. But. At that I had in the studio in a very primitive in a going to stick. Of wood Vasily also part of it should. Be kind enough to. Clarify for us since he has acted for so long with the Moscow out there. The Moscow Art theatres use of what has come to be known as a motional memory it's go ahead I'll wait. It's beginnings when he first came upon it with Stanislaw ski any changes in its use that might have occurred of emotional memory over the years its use in training of actors in the rehearsal period and in actual performance and. It was OK. Difference. Of his words the. Difference can you hear me now yes. It's different stages of his work Stanislavski. Would make in his quest he would make an emphasis on one element or on one side will you. Suddenly started to. Draw you to a base and so on finding that character and on using costumes from the very first rehearsal in order to since the part. Also occasionally used to emphasize the rhythm that is to find the proper rhythm or to find the feeling the proper feeling that is at different periods of his why he would emphasize different elements in order to find the most reliable element the same applies to motion and memory of the and to his work to he has arrived at the message of physical action as which embraces all these elements or does he mean. What. He has abandoned all his earlier attempts and so on his earlier quests emotional activity. Really quest for feeling all the years there is a legal place in a building a character but Stanislavski found that the felt as a way to gain insight into the character is through the physical actions lives properly from physical acts and attracts. OLD of the other elements it has the ability to attract are going on means if X. is a launch a CO is an editor. Joy to formalise Superficially I have to justify it inside myself thus attracting emotions. And for the rest this is the poisoned and don't know what. To look for Frequently there are new sticks being made me to say I have heard Stanislavski speak about emotional memory and immediately saying this is the key element and this has to be emphasized less is not soul and saying it is just as wrong to say that there is no such thing as emotional memory that it isn't needed this is equally wrong what it was the is love ski phone in his live was a progressive in what I just certain stage and he continued to develop it until he arrived at the message of physical action I wonder well enough because we will have a separate report on it and he will tell you what he meant by a physical action than his last cave basing himself on the signs on physiology has a wrong and it was by the other ways it was right I have to get this in conclusions as if you see all that just namely that the physical and of the physical is inalienably connected and as soon as and after the commits the physical act was Jules's was a large ship it will inevitably it tracks to bolding as the truth of logic. Therefore of the motion of memory which also is active in our work we very often have to saying I. Know you're here I'll give you an example my favorite city living in grass I was born and when you got there spend my use there together with government come out of was a charming woman and she still is one I know of. The City in just. Yet Marie's go back to this city I have not after World War One stayed in Moscow and I haven't been in Leningrad for ten or fifteen years and finally I return to this beloved city of mine and I was writing to my friends that I was so excited seeing Leningrad I was so excited the feelings the emotion nice where almost too much for me and this is where feelings and subsequently I thought what was I doing and when I try to recall what actually inside it what I did arrive to get it was in that it was the most important was towards me to go back to my favorite old places to determine you have to change to have been there and as I wanted to revisit these old favorite places I was I was a disappointed that this doesn't look the way it used to or on the contrary see that it's still the same I was happy I was and then emotionally that means that I was excited as far as actually this concerned I was running on three visiting these sites which were connected as it was good or bad my memory is not in figure I had to have picked apart where I would exit out returning revisiting all to places my emotional I will know in my emotional memory of how what I have created how happy I was what I have done and very often I keep telling my students write a diary keep a diary observe done or you will see a person malls or has a sad experience he lost a friend or a close friend his friends that is being buried and he attends the funeral and then storm watch since it does you do. What physical actions. There is see here I would commit to express his grief here approaches to. The man who looks at him and all this write down observe it you have seen the moment of grief and you will know what a person does as a moment of the grief or live say You are happening to witness a love scene just look closely observe what do they do how do they act what is their mutual relationship and write it down write down everything and then you can classify it you can have a diary in the index say for instance a lot of. Entrants under and no love for and then you can go back and you mean use something. That is what I want to make clear to you. On this of course you can't use cliches you have you can pigeonhole it one person X. in a certain way and another in a different way and you have to find what is closer to your own image what is the better tools for you it was the motional membranes of that is what emotional memory it is and is the best way not act out of bother trying to remember how did I act when I was in love when I welcome are a good say when I was in love with the man to. See. How how I wrote poetry I used to write poetry to her and also listen so that fear in my emotional memory and it still is active. Follow please precisely on this point I think the two fusions here with some of us try. Miss From what you just said let's take the question of lemmings out of your visiting letting grad as an example let's take out did I act when I was in love you said how did I act but then you said I used to write poems and so forth you said. How did I feel when I came back to Leningrad but then you said I I went places I compared I saw I did this I said Does this look like it looked before doesn't look different than it did before in other words the emotional memory as it were came from in part a doing you were recalling concrete physical images and then you came into contact with these concrete physical images and with these images you had as it were the physical fact of the past that you could see that you could smell that you could touch and here it was now and you could now see it and smell it and touch it as it were that is letter A You've been listening to a rebroadcast of the first of our seminars in drama these programs feature members of the Moscow our theater and discussion with their American theatrical colleagues the seminars were taped as they took place some time ago at the Institute of International Education in Manhattan we invite you to join us again next Wednesday at eight thirty for the next program in the series. 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