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W N Y S E T V presents profile a series of interview programs on subjects of current interest in New York City profilers offers over Channel thirty one each weekday afternoon not four thirty. Today your host Tom Cotton will interview Seymour and SIEGEL to the director of education for the city of New York their knowledge Tom Costas. With afternoon in recent months and going back even a much harder time than not there's been quite a resurgence in the interest of U.H.F. television today with me is Seymour and Siegel who is the chairman of the Committee for the full development of all channel broadcasting. We are going to explore some of the reasons for this committee and what's going on in the television area and with Mr Siegel today first of all Mr Siegel Can I ask why is this committee necessary why do we have to study all channel telecasting well turn first of all I'd like to correct something the chairman of the full committee and the chairman of one of the committees which is concerned with station operation the chairman of the full committee is a commissioner Robert Lee of the Federal Communications Commission. Now the reason that this committee has been set up is largely due to the fact that the Congress passed the legislation about a year or so back. Which will make it mandatory for all television receivers manufactured in the United States and shipped in interstate commerce to be capable of tuning to all channels not only the channels that we're familiar with here in New York those channels to four five seven the eleven and thirteen but also all of the U.H.F. channels from fourteen to eighty three. Well this the effect of this law will become apparent April of next year. At the present time there are a great many manufacturers who are already turning out television receivers which are capable of tuning to all channels but the public has not yet been educated to this and there are a great many questions with regard to why all channels. Why must I paid twenty dollars more for a television receiver when I have no use for us receiver if I happen to live in a place where there is no U.H.F. television station as yet at any event this will be the first clinic. Which will get underway here in New York City very shortly which is a product of the work of this committee for the development of. Broadcasting or as we call it now all channel broadcast. Actually television has been with the since before World War two Why has it taken so long for all channel telecasting to get under way if they originally intend there would only be twelve channels to thirteen Originally there were thirteen channels then Challenger One was a limited for use in some other service. Finally along about nineteen fifty two I would cite. They. Should say some years before that the commission realized that twelve channels were not enough to provide a national competitive service in television for the people of the United States so consequently they imposed a Freed's on the construction of new television stations until they made a study to find out whether there was additional space in the spectrum. Well that freeze which was originally scheduled to last only a few months actually lasted for several years during that period those stations that were in operation were attracting greater and greater audiences people were purchasing sets that could only tune to V.H.F. stations and when the Commission finally released its plan for the use of us. A great many stations went on the air but they couldn't develop audiences because there weren't such available and consequently while there were at one time almost five hundred US stations operating today there are only about one hundred that are still in business part of this was I believe due to the argument over intermixture of stations the D.S. and the U.H.F. station while the commission's allocation plan was to provide both us and V.H.F. stations in the same community other same Orkut if the station was already operating there and had the audience it was very difficult for your station to begin operation I should point out that in those areas of the United States where US. Is the only kind of television functioning it's relatively successful these stations have got network affiliation they're putting on excellent programming they are making money and they're providing a service to their communities very good now you mentioned earlier that they're your clinic is going to be in session at Carnegie Hall this Tuesday night. And this clinic will consist of various members of the industry including Commissioner Robert E. Lee of the got a concussion Alicia alay will be present to deliver a keynote address to explain the rise in the well for us why the Congress pass this legislation and what people should know about you a child who is going to be invited to this meeting all manufacturers parts dealers television. Technicians dealers I mean by that has anything at all to do with television receivers and for that matter the general public as well in other words our viewers right now any one of them could go to any one of them are welcome to come in. Thirty. Eight o'clock and they will have an opportunity to ask questions. Rather distinguished panel of people who. Are very good that's this Tuesday night at eight o'clock at Carnegie Hall Mr Siegel there are some problems so is opposed in U.H.F. telecasting in a large metropolitan area and we're all well aware that W. N.Y.C. television has been on the air for approximately eighteen months now in an effort to. Find out what these problems are how they can be solved Could you tell us briefly what the problems were and what happened to them. Well the basic idea of us Jeff operation was that it wouldn't work. In an area of tall buildings of concrete and steel that the one highly attenuating factors and saw the Federal Communications Commission decided to run a definitive experiment and the Congress appropriated two million dollars about two and a half years ago the commission constructed the station which was then known as WM javelin which is now W N Y C T V. And they made various measurements at five thousand different locations within the twenty five mile radius of the Empire State Building where the transmitter is located as a result of these measurements. The conclusion is very easily drawn that there is no significant difference between V.H.F. television and us have television as a matter of fact in many areas us have television disappear because the picture is clear a quest but more contrast. Seventy in the area of color television. Has in many instances many points of superiority. While as a result of that experiment. The city took over the operation of W.H.O. because as you well know why our early measurements were being made over the last year the city itself was experimenting in the use of television for departmental purposes for training for management improvement for ways of possibly saving money in city government and as a result of our experimentation they are Wagner and the City Fathers agreed that this was a useful activity to continue and that's the reason W N Y C T V is focusing right now can you give us some specific reactions from the various commissioners as to how television has helped thirty Parkman's. Well only fire department for example where we are providing training program to all of the two hundred eighty five houses in the city. You remember before television that used to take a drill instructor a whole year to go and from house to fire house and present his particular drill or his particular lesson at the drill period which is about seven thirty in the evening Today we present this on television and within a half hour he gets to five thousand men. Fifteen thousand men approximately in the fire department so we repeat that program twice and in this way we get to the whole the plan with an amount of days rather than of years of the general Fire Engineering his call list a giant step forward in the training of firemen in the development of professional skills and much more important in keeping the public informed of the tremendous number of skills and attributes of the fireman has to have I don't know whether you have gotten any of this out of watching these training programs but I have a fireman has to be a plumber or an electrician that a carpenter got him all of these skills and still risked his life when in the time to save life and property so that and so far as the fire department is concerned they consider this a tremendous. Leap forward in the whole training operation and they are very very anxious to have it continuing to expand and likewise in the police department. I recall when we first suggested the use of television to the police we met a rather oblique call reception because I suppose the police and naturally very conservative people but when we should just add the broadcast of the lineup on a scramble basis where we would save travel time for the detectives instead of having the travel. From the various police precincts they stay in their precincts and more of them are able to see who was wounded and of course we scramble list so as to protect the civil rights of the people who've been arrested but not yet convicted and so far as training is concerned anybody who looks at the station is aware of the fact that there's been a great expansion in the amount of training activity on the part of the police department. And so far as the training of nurses are concerned this also is a tremendous step forward. We have been able to reach about four thousand nurses at one time in thirty eight different hospitals. Well this enables us to get the right best instruction and to take advantage of everything all of the values of educational television in an effort to instruct these nurses. We could go on I mean the certainly the contribution made by the station to the Academy of medicines experimental training operation for physicians the clinical course and science there were twenty three thousand physicians in this area and we know that several thousand of them have converted their sites and are looking at these these television these post graduate courses regularly and avidly. This we think is the first step in a general direction of expanding this for the benefit of of in terms of the benefit of residents and hospitals as well as for the general practitioner who finds it difficult to keep up with the state of the ot and to learn of the latest therapeutic adventures in medicine by this way he can see it right in his own home so we're hoping that that particular program will certainly continue and expand some time in the form while we haven't yet really begun to scratch the possibilities of the use of television for municipal purposes but we've attracted sufficient attention so that the city of Los Angeles for example is applying for a station. Certainly many of the city departments in Chicago and Detroit have expressed great interest in what we are doing in utilizing this medium for the purpose of training for the purpose of management efficiency for the purpose of improving the services that I mean this apology can render to the people of a of its particular. I know that Channel thirty one gets many requests from the general public as regards how do they receive Channel thirty one on the prison sentence I know there are several ways perhaps you might. And like now he was on that well there are several ways in which you can receive US television if you haven't all sat. You can get yourself a converter we have one of them here. This is a little gadget. That you connect between your and Tema and the set itself looks relatively simple it does in order to do is to turn this thing to Channel thirty one and leave it there and then turn the main knob on your set to channel six which is not in use in the city and this will automatically bring the Channel thirty one now there are some sets that have a U.H.F. position on the knob but do not have not equipped with a tuning step Channel thirty one in this particular instance you have to call on your service main and get him to put in a Channel thirty one tuning strip then if you have to live in an apartment house that has a master antenna system and you can get your landlord or get you a cooperative group of people live in a cooperative apartment to install a master converter on the roof you can automatically turn in Channel thirty one by again turning the knob on your set to channel sex. And then of course the final way of receiving the station is by getting an all channel receiver. Many of these receivers by various manufacturers are already in the shops and stores in New York City and they they will increase in number. The nine hundred sixty four models will obviously be all channel models because this becomes mandatory but there are roughly about eight to ten percent of all the sets being shipped into New York right now are all channels so people who don't want to buy a set that's going to be obsolete a year from now will be sure when they replace the present sites or if you're getting a set for the first time be sure to specify an all channel was saved in other words if you walk into a store today you can buy an all channel receiver Yeah sure nice car sale market what you may have to ask for it but certainly in the larger shops and gradually in some of the smaller ones as a matter of fact I thought this clinic on Tuesday May the fourteenth commission the Henry of the Federal Communications Commission will be presenting a plot to the retailer in New York City who has sold the most or all channel receivers during the one nine hundred sixty three and this is a considerable number can you tell us about how many conversions there are two U.H.F. at the present time we can identify about seventy five to eighty thousand. Conversions in the metropolitan area. We expect the president right that this is running about forty five thousand a month and of course after this program clinic we expect that this rate will go up sharply until April of next year whether it will we hope be one hundred percent in other words by April of next year we will have in our stores all sets capable of receiving all channels that's the expectation right I notice on this converter we have here the dial goes from fourteen to eighty three. There's only one U.H.F. station in the OP in operation right now our station Channel thirty one what I see not exactly I care if there is another station which is now operating on Channel seventy seven and of course as you may know we are also operating a translator on Channel eighty three. We have a little low powered transmitter on top of the George Washington Bridge which rebroadcast all the programs and tells anyone any Benny body who lives up in the vicinity of the George Washington Bridge is able to tune into this rather simply although there have been reports of reception of this low powered transmitter from as far away as Coney Island. At any of. The Coast Guard also is operating a transmitter on Channel seventy seven which gives you a radar picture of New York Harbor this of course is of tremendous interest to both of us that a small boat of us who are not able to have a complete radar installation on the boat but if they happen to have an Alltel receiver on the boat they can tune into this and they can see themselves as a little blip traverse in New York Harbor and going from Boyd to boil from location to location in bad weather then they can see not only themselves but other ships are on the other possible obstructions. Is the Coast Guard the only other unusual agency which is experimental in this case no other considerable number of others but for example there is a commercial station that's expected to be on the air by January of next year and that will be channel forty seven whereas that I will be operating in lived in New Jersey. And they of course will be covering New York City. They are expected of course to present programs of ethnic character foreign language programs for the benefit of citizens who only speak for other languages. And various other programs of the city but this will be a regular commercial operation and there are of course a great many applications for additional facilities and channel thirty seven for example is the subject of a competitive hearing before the Federal Communications Commission and I don't doubt that once the sets think in making their appearance there will be a great many other applications for additional stations in this area in and surrounding New York I understand there is a controversy surrounding channel thirty seven Don't the astronomers want this for their own use they do already have. I believe that the Federal Communications Commission is ready indicated that anybody who gets a license to operate on channel thirty seven and that was a television would be not permitted to operate between twelve midnight and six in the morning during which time the radio astronomers would be able to make use of which I believe there's a station for radio astronomy in Illinois Illinois is the location that the main location for the radio astronomical experiments I see. Have there been any breakthroughs as far as set construction is concerned for instance the all channel sets of course won't have this converter sitting on top it'll all be contained within one with a viewer have to switch all the way from say Channel thirteen on up to thirty one. No because they are making their having several new developments coming in which will allow for the equivalent of push button tuning. Where you can preset the channels that you are particularly interested in or those that you're able to tune into and you can get I'm almost as rapidly as you can. V.H.F. channels where you click from point to point of a single blow up and I don't doubt that there will be technological improvements to make it easier all the way because now that the manufacturers are convinced that this is the wrong they will begin to devote great resource and great attention. To making the sets as good as possible are the proponents of paid television following the developments of U.H.F. there certainly are because as you know there are pay television experiments going on now in Hartford and Denver and on the West Coast and obviously a suitable their pay television would be additional channels the list of course comes up in the US bed Furthermore stations may find it difficult. To attract advertising revenue in the early days of operation when the number sets of over be limited. And they may well look to pay television with the commission permit so that there may well be an expansion of this type of Laban expansion of other types of specialized us. How many stations are in operation right now Mr Siegel in the United States roughly about seven hundred seven hundred that's both V.H.F. and U.H.F. and U.H.F. as the commission made any forecasts as to how many station that might be five or even say ten years hence as a result bar U.H.F. experiments Well there is the possibility of some three thousand to four thousand stations in the United States as you note there's been a tremendous upsurge in the number of AM radio stations in fifteen years ago there was a great limitation on the US Now there are a tremendous number of stations so that here in New York we have twenty four AM stations we have million two hundred F.M. stations and of course we have a television stations. Obviously a great increase in the number of stations where we choir a segmentation of the audience will require specialization the hope of course is that there will be diversity of programming course we may get more of the same but at the same time there would be the physical possibility of providing specialized programming for those groups in the community that are in that being so. I understand there would be groups such as colleges universities even perhaps private organizations might even share a channel. The Dispy one possibility well as you know educational stations are that operate on a noncommercial basis are in some instances the result of cooperative effort of various groups in the community including all the institutions of higher learning the school system and other educational bodies public service agencies. Get together and operate a station we have one of those live here in New York City. In other parts of the country the About seventy of the stations operating these are operating either by a single institution or by various institutions getting together. Operating a station for the common good it can then be either a common venture or a single that's right I see you know of course at the US channel vailable here in New York City now Title twenty five which is reserved for education and the construction permit which is how about the regents of the state of New York and recently there's been a plan by the Department of Education of the state to try and get this activated has there been any recent action on this or is this still in the future Well this is still in the future there's been nothing definite or that people are talking about it with the regions planned isn't classes over television or would there be other than that they might present classes where they might present the kind of material that we presented on Channel thirty one for the benefit of the schools always in which films where with a limited number of prints available it was impossible for the schools to make full use of these films a lot experiment which is going on right out of the present time between thirty and three in the afternoon makes it possible to distribute these films to all of the schools at the same time. Thereby with a great save on. Great saving in film transportation or shortage of Princes is overshadowed by this too that and the economics of it you know very interesting to the school system has it been successful we have a little further was also in it but all I have heard of a qualitative nature is that while the enthused about. You were speaking earlier that kind of telecasting on U.H.F. seems a period to the color on V.H.F.. And we know that the experiments in color have gone on for six months beyond the regular experiments could you tell us how this turned out and why it was necessary to go another six months with Comet well in the area beyond the twenty five mile limit the association of maximum Telecasters has been conducting a measuring experiment in color television and they have roughly one hundred color television receivers scattered around the periphery of the city the reports of course are not isn't but again the qualitative reports that we receive highly enthusiastic. The reason that this experiment lasted six months longer than the Federal Communications Commission experiment was because the colored people didn't get started until six months after they have ceased experiment got underway and they were the full year of measurements because there was a general feeling that when the foliage came out on the trees that this would have an effect on reception that cold weather might have an effect on reception that rain or snow or any of the other climatic conditions might affect transmission and reception of the way most of this is now been disposed. And the general results as I indicated to you is that there is relatively little difference certainly no significant difference in the transmission of us over the edge. Apparently than the second guessers who once upon a time said that U.H.F. was far inferior to V.H.S. have been proven wrong and especially in New York where supposedly a canyon type city would be most difficult Well this is well I believe so because we won't really know when in ten years almost everyone will be able to tune into all the U.H.F. channels around the country this is legal it's been a pleasure having you with us today our guest has been Seymour and see gold the head of the municipal Broadcasting Company and also Mr Siegel we might add is an expert in U.H.F. television which is rapidly becoming one of a very potent force in this country and I'm sure overseas too in time. Next week next Thursday we hope you'll join us when we will have as our guest Amos a Virgo who is the coordinator of the New York Film Festival to be held at Philharmonic home this September New York is a summer festival and now we have a film festival too so we hope you'll join us then the festival by the way is presented in collaboration with the Museum of Modern Art and the British Film Institute and in addition to the Festival in September it will also be seen at the British Film Festival this coming October join us again next Thursday until then good bye. W N Y C.T.V. has presented profile a series of interview programs on subjects of current interest in New York City profile is offered over Channel thirty one each weekday afternoon four thirty today your host Tom Carlson interviewed Mr Seymour in Siegel on rector of communications for the city of New York this program was directed by all Palumbo. Preceding programme was presented live by the municipal broadcasting system you are tuned to W N Y Z T.V. in New York City's own station U.H.F. channels thirty one W N Y C T.V. U.H.F. channel thirty one brings you programs with interesting and unusual information about people places and events in this modern world for example tonight at nine thirty in New York City's own station presents the Rices red featuring leading authorities on China that's tonight at nine thirty on Channel thirty one. Stay tuned now for a focus on food next on U.H.F. channels thirty one. Rather the broiler room the one that has the broader industry grew in the today we'll find out a as we focus on food. Welcome to a focus on food in tweet W N Y C T V or because we lose focus on food program produced by food marketing in place to fool with humor has an office here in the Old City the part of the New York State extension service all over the Cornell University. Today you will learn all about quarter to tell you more about today's program here's a number of the marketing of this doesn't work you Murphy Good evening of course brothers have become increasingly popular with American consumers in fact they've almost become a habit in a way of life with American consumers at the present time the consumption of broader meat is greater than any other meat with the exception of beef and pork of course a chicken has always been one of the main foods of man and chicken dates back to having the longest records of any domesticated animal but the broader is a relatively new type of chicken twenty five years ago it hardly existed and so it has become very popular in a relatively recent period of time and has had the most rapid rate of growth of any type of major food in the United States as this particular chart will show us we have on this chart plotted the pounds of brine or meat consumed per person per year on this scale we have the years this is one hundred forty one hundred fifty and one hundred sixty and here are ten pounds of meat purchased consumed per person per year twenty and thirty and if we look at this we find that prior to nine hundred forty hardly any brother meat was consumed in fact in one hundred thirty five the consumption was less than a pound the runner industry really began in the early one nine hundred thirty S. By one nine hundred fifty our consumption. Brothers had increased to require it was almost ten pounds per person per year but the rate of growth continued to increase rapidly and by nine hundred sixty had reached almost twenty five pounds in one hundred sixty three this year we will again have a large supply of brothers that will consume and the consumption should equal twenty five to twenty six pounds very easily so it has had a very rapid rate of growth and brawlers of course are quite different quite a different bird from what we ate just a general.