State Sen. Myrie on Election Reform and Fighting Gun Violence

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Brigid Bergin: It's the Brian Lehrer show on WNYC. I'm Brigid Bergin from the WNYC and Gothamist newsroom filling in for Brian who's off today. We're following up now with a couple of big things that have happened in the last year or so. First, we found out most of the winners of the New York City primaries after a mistake in processing the counts in the first go-round with rank choice voting, drawing attention to the way the Board of Elections is run, and second, Governor Cuomo declared a disaster emergency over gun violence.

We are joined now by someone who has a role in both of these stories, state senator, Zellnor Myrie of Brooklyn. He chairs the Senate Committee on elections and he was the senate sponsor of the just signed bill that will make it possible to sue gun manufacturers and dealers as centerpiece of the governor's announcement. His 20th district includes parts of Brownsville, Crown Heights, East Flatbush, Gowanus, Park Slope, Prospect Heights, Prospect Lefferts Gardens, South Slope, and Sunset Park in Brooklyn. We'll also ask about the lawsuit, he's just filed over how he was treated by the NYPD at a Black Lives Matter protest last May. Welcome back to the show, Senator Myrie.

Senator Myrie: Always a pleasure to be with you.

Brigid Bergin: Let's start with elections since that's what I spent so much of my time covering. The problems at the New York City Board of Elections are ongoing, the latest being that they left sample ballots in the count when they released the first rank choice voting results. It might be the New York City board, but it's a creature of the state, so that's where you come in as chair of the Elections Committee. Is it time to make changes there?

Senator Myrie: I think it is, and first let me say that I appreciate seeing your coverage on elections all of the time, I think you are one of the best. It was also good to see you on the national media outlets giving what I believe to be the most nuanced takes on our elections. Reforming the Board of Elections here in the city of New York is not something new. Brigid, you and I can probably schedule a program segment after every election because there's always an issue that comes up but this is something I think that we have to tackle in a wholesale manner.

As you mentioned, it is a creature of the state. The New York City Board of Elections is one of many across the state that has challenges and issues and so I'm excited to announce breaking news on your program today that the Senate is going to be holding a number of hearings throughout the state to tackle this issue. What we're going to do is something a little different than what we've seen in hearings past, we're going to go out to Syracuse and Rochester. We're going to hear from Westchester, Hudson Valley, Long Island voters about what they think should be changed, and so it won't just be a panel of experts and folks who work in this space regularly, but we really want to hear from the voters.

Those hearings are going to be taking place at the end of July and the beginning of August, and then we're going to culminate with a big hearing with more of the experts in September up in Albany. I'm excited about this. I'm looking forward to hearing from the voters on what they believe we should be changing, not just here in New York City but throughout the state.

Brigid Bergin: Wow. I get both kind words and breaking news in the first answer of this interview, it's all going up from here, Senator Myrie.

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Let's get some listeners into this conversation. Maybe we can do an informal hearing now, get things started.

Senator Myrie: Let's do it.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners, what would you like Senator Myrie's committee to focus their attention on when it comes to how elections are run and how the Board of Elections functions or do you have a question about the gun liability law, his lawsuit against the NYPD, or his arrest at a protest, which we'll get to later. Call us at 646-435-7280 or tweet @BrianLehrer. Again, that number is 646-435-7280. We know people love to talk about the Board of Elections when elections are happening but how do we continue to have that conversation as we get a little bit with the election in our rearview mirror and think about how should we change things so that the next post-election period we're not having that same conversation again.

Senator Myrie, the board of elections as we've talked about is a political body. The two parties borough bosses get to pick one Commissioner each so we end up with here in the city 10 political appointees, and they are not exactly picked because of their deep knowledge of election law and administration but this process is all dictated by the state constitution and state election law, so do you think there's anything about it that can and will change in the coming session?

Senator Myrie: I think we have shown, this Democratic majority in the Senate, have shown that we've been very deliberative when approaching reforms to our election law. We hold hearings, we listen to what folks have to say, and then we make the appropriate implementations. I think with election reforms, it's not going to be any different. As you mentioned, we have in our state constitution a requirement of some level of bipartisanship in the construction of our local boards of elections and our state board. I think that there are some folks who believe that that time has come for us to change that process, that there's too much influence by political parties over the administration of our elections.

Some folks have suggested that we centralize the administration of our elections such that the state is one that is running most of it and that the local boards play a more of a tangential role. There's some folks who suggest that we have a singular official that runs the elections, as we've seen in some other states, as a secretary of state, for instance, who was elected to do this. I think all of those are worthwhile ideas to explore, but they have positives and negatives.

We saw the Secretary of State in Georgia back when Stacey Abrams was running, he ended up running for governor and had control over how the elections were administered. There are many of us who believe that that played a role in him eventually being the victor. I think that we have to be careful. The current construction was born out of really an attempt to end corruption in the election process because it was one-party control. I think the framers of that contract thought that if we had bipartisan input, that it would help move the process along in a less corrupt way, but now we've seen that that sometimes leads to stalemates, it leads to unqualified people administering our elections. I do think the time has come for us to take a serious look at how we change that.

Brigid Bergin: Your colleague, Senator Krueger was here and a caller pointed out that while the problems of the New York City Board of Elections draw the most attention, all the county boards are essentially run that same way with this bipartisan structure. Is this part of what you're going to be focusing on in your upcoming statewide hearings?

Senator Myrie: It's certainly going to be a part of it. I think it's a good point by my colleague, Senator Krueger, this really is a statewide problem. Look at the placement of early voting sites as an example. We didn't have too many issues with that this time around here in the city but across the state, we saw some really significant challenges with providing early voting sites in such a way that most people can get to it. The Attorney General had to sue Rensselaer County to get them to place an early voting site in the city of Troy that is predominantly Black.

We've seen in Saratoga County, that the Democratic and Republican commissioners have not been able to come to an accord on where to place these early voting sites. We look at the New York 22nd, the Congressional District which was the last race in the entire country to be called because of many of the discretionary decisions made by the local boards of elections in that congressional district. We have a statewide problem. It's why I'm looking forward to taking a statewide approach to this so that the reform can happen in a unified fashion across New York.

Brigid Bergin: It is so true and interesting of note, in Rensselaer County, of course, Troy being where a larger Black population is but also where the larger population in the county is. Just the notion that there would not be an early voting site in that center just raises serious questions. Joining us now on the phone is Isabella, a poll worker from Brooklyn who will have a question for our virtual hearing here with Senator Myrie. Isabella, welcome to WNYC. What issue would you like to raise?

Isabella: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I worked both elections both in November and the primary this year for the first time. I was hearing a lot of feedback from elder poll workers. I'm much younger than most of them. I had heard their stories about trying to give feedback to the BOE but being continuously stonewalled. I was curious if there was going to be a way to receive that feedback and make meaningful change.

Senator Myrie: Thank you for the call and Isabelle let me first thank you for your service, in being a poll worker. I don't think we give enough hanks to folks like yourself. We really are grateful for you helping our democracy turn. One of the impetuses of this hearing schedule is for us to get direct feedback from individuals like yourself and from some of the poll workers that you have mentioned. We will have a mechanism by which folks can either publicly testify, or that you can send this testimony directly to us if you don't feel comfortable talking about it in public because it really is important for us to hear directly from those who are impacted, and specifically those who are helping to keep our democracy going. If you have questions or issues, things that you've seen, challenges that you've experienced as someone on the inside, we really do want to hear from you as well.

Brigid Bergin: Isabella, what were some of the issues that you experienced and that potentially you were hearing from other poll workers, that you wanted to relay back to the board of elections?

Isabella: Sure. Both in my experience in November and in June, there was a huge amount of chaos between the different coordinators at sites. In November, particularly because there's a Republican and Democratic coordinator at an early voting location or in particularly early voting. There was just immense disagreements and so the actual organization and flow of traffic and making sure everyone's tended to and feeling their vote was being protected was completely dismissed. I know a lot of folks tried to give that feedback live and that was a huge disappointment. As well as just the compensation process at the BOE is a complete nightmare, particularly, with overtime that was happening, and actually making sure the hours worked were been honestly compensated was completely broken, and giving that feedback also, was just a continuous wall.

I made a bunch of like-- I was calling them my old man friends, at the time, who were telling me stories of their decades working the polls, and they came back every year. It was very inspiring, honestly. A lot of them were ready to throw in their hat just because the actual chaos was overwhelming. Then another poll worker, I met just this last June was saying that he's done a lot of interviews and submitted actual suggestions about breaking up the day a little bit more of her coworkers. I don't know if everyone knows but it's essentially a 16 hour workday with a small break in there sometimes if your coordinator is organized enough. By the end of the day, when the real essential closing of the polls work is happening, everyone is completely out of their mind, just exhausted. I think a lot of important details get quickly skimmed over in that time, not that the vote is compromised but it's just, it's really not taken care of [crosstalk]

Brigid Bergin: It's an exhausting day. Isabella, thank you so much for your call and for asking your questions but also, raising some of the issues that you and others have experienced for Senator Myrie. So potential issue for your hearing, the workday of poll workers, something to consider. Senator Myrie, your counterpart in the Assembly Latrice Walker of Brooklyn, who chairs that chambers Election Committee announced a hearing next week looking at ranked-choice voting, which was used for the first time city-wide in these primaries, and not specifically the Board of Elections. It's a bit controversial because the problems weren't necessarily connected to ranked-choice voting, were they?

Senator Myrie: I have great respect for Assemblymember Latrice Walker. She's not only my counterpart as the Chair of the Elections Committee in the assembly, we overlap in representing Brownsville together, and so we do a lot of work for the community and for furthering democracy. I think it's within the province of that Elections Committee to look at ranked-choice voting. I think that we have seen a number of problems with elections that go beyond that scope, but I don't think it's not worth something looking at.

I think going forward, as we have done in the past three years, the senate and the assembly when it comes to passing legislation and arriving at solutions to the problems, that we will ultimately be in the right place and in the same place so I look forward to the information that is gathered from that hearing, and, of course, from the hearings that we'll be holding in the next couple of months.

I think we're going to have a bunch of really good bills teed up and ready to go starting in January. I will take this opportunity to plug the bill that both me and assembly member Walker sponsor and that's the John R. Lewis Voting Rights Act of New York, which would in the face of federal inaction on voting rights and local action by Republican-led legislators to suppress the vote. I think New York can lead the way in centering voters and giving us mechanisms to make that process easier. I look forward for us to push that together as well in the next legislative session.

Brigid Bergin: Let's take one more caller. Julio in Sunset Park. Julio, on elections that is. Julio, welcome to WNYC.

Julio: Good morning. Thank you. First of all, I just want to say I'm a huge fan of Senator Myrie. If he were to tell me to jump, I would literally say, "How high?" I just wanted to say as the previous caller stated having nonpartisan elections is significant and would be a huge step forward. I think having Democratic and Republican coordinators causes significant challenges and issues and really can also give conflicting information for voters and I think also just creates inefficiencies. I'm not sure why we're paying two people to do one person's job. We should really be learning from other states that use nonpartisan elections and really not reinventing the wheel when we're talking about reform.

Brigid Bergin: Julio, thank you so much for calling. Thanks so much for calling WNYC. Senator Myrie, any response? Will nonpartisan election administration be part of the conversation at your hearings?

Senator Myrie: I think it most certainly will be. Julio, it's good to get to hear you, and I hope you're doing well. This is a really important part of the reform conversation is a nonpartisan civil service professionalization of the administration of our elections, and I think any objective observer would want really world-class service for their democracy. I think that's the principle that we're all trying to adhere to.

I would also note that we have really a tremendous amount of workers who are doing the right thing at the BOE. Even some of our callers who, in good faith go to work at the polls, in good faith go to administer our elections, and really, I believe sometimes they're victims to the structural flaws, and not because they're trying to do anything nefarious, but it's beyond the scope of their control. I think we have to consider that when we're talking about reforms.

We got to remember that there also be union members in the Board of Elections who've been working there for many years who've been doing an excellent job. I don't think we should be throwing out the baby with the bathwater, but I think it's important for us to to to consider how we can make this the best democracy for every New Yorker possible. I'm dedicated to that. My mantra has been taking New York from worst to first, and we are going to continue to live by that as we go through these hearings.

Brigid Bergin: Senator Myrie, when we talk about some of these changes having nonpartisan election administration, my understanding is that would require a state constitutional amendment. Is that correct?

Senator Myrie: That's right and that amendment process, I think is rightfully slow. It requires the legislature in two separate legislative sessions to pass that amendment, which is a resolution, a concurrent resolution by both the Senate and the Assembly, and then the voters get to vote on it in the following November. If in the best-case scenario, we passed a resolution next year, that would count towards this session, and we'd have to do one again, in the following year, and then it goes to the voter so we're talking at minimum a three-year process if we were to tackle this the first thing next legislative session. It takes a while, but I think that we have some other things that we can do and some other tweaks we can make to the election law to improve the process prior to that amendment kicking in.

Brigid Bergin: Let's talk about the other big issue you're involved with, fighting gun violence. In general, are you in support of this disaster emergency the governor has declared?

Senator Myrie: I think we heard a lot of good things from the governor this past week. As you might know, the legislature passed the Community Violence Intervention Act in the budget in April where we declared gun violence a public health crisis, and where we dedicated for the first time an annual stream to hospital and community-based intervention programs as it pertains to violence in our communities. We are supportive of the declaration of gun violence being a public health emergency. It has been an emergency for communities like mine for an incredibly long amount of time, and I'm happy to see this public support for tackling the many causes of gun violence.

We know that it's not just when an individual picks up the gun, where the problem begins. It is a lack of housing security. It is a lack of educational opportunities. There are a lot of things that go into gun violence, and so to see this holistic approach and announcement, I think is a welcome one for our communities. Of course, the proof will be in the pudding, the devil is in the details, and so we're looking forward to those resources coming to the ground, and really seeing it put in action. I think the announcement was welcome and we look forward to working with the governor's office to make sure it becomes a reality.

Brigid Bergin: How does the new law that you and Assemblymember Patricia Fahy sponsored get around federal liability protection for gun manufacturers?

Senator Myrie: Yes, for our listeners that aren't steeped in the commerce clause, constitutional law. In 2005--

Brigid Bergin: Only a few of them out there.

Senator Myrie: [chuckles] Right. In 2005, Congress passed a law that essentially gave blanket immunity to the gun industry. It said you cannot bring a civil lawsuit against a member of that industry, except if there is a state law that member violates, then you can bring that lawsuit. This was up for debate in a New York City federal court case in 2006, and they said, "Look, there was a law that we tried to use to get around it." They said, "This isn't the right law to do it. You would have to craft something that actually regulated firearms." That's what we did. We wrote a law that said, "If you are a member of the gun industry and you are not putting in the appropriate safety protocols to prevent your inherently dangerous product from reaching the black market, from reaching the streets of Brownsville, Crown Heights, Rochester, Albany, then you can be held accountable."

I think it's important for us to note here that it isn't automatic guilt. This is about having our day in court and for victims of gun violence, for communities that have been impacted by this public health crisis, it is a really big deal because it is a public nuisance in our state and allowing people to have their day in court, and to say, "You could have helped prevent this instead of predicating your business model on the death of our people." I think is an important step. I was really happy to see the governor sign it earlier last week.

Brigid Bergin: Governor Cuomo has promised to, "Build a wall along the state border to keep out guns purchased in states with less stringent gun laws." Is that a concept you support?

Senator Myrie: I try to play my role as a legislator and not step into the commentary box on executive orders. I support anything that's going to help us stem the flow of illegal guns into the state. With the Community Violence Intervention Act, with this bill that was just passed, I have really taken a non-law enforcement approach. I think we have given a lot of resources and time into the law enforcement piece of this, and it is a necessary piece, but my focus has been on the community piece and how we can prevent. I'm going to continue to focus on that. Anything that's going to help with stemming the flow, I'd be supportive of but my focus will remain on how we can tackle the root causes.

Brigid Bergin: Sure. What was interesting when governor Cuomo made this announcement of the emergency predicated on the spike in shootings in New York City in the first six months of the year, that morning Mayor de Blasio and Commissioner Shay had announced a drop in gun violence in June and said their Safe Summer NYC program was actually working. What's your sense of how things are trending?

Senator Myrie: Just yesterday. a 13-year-old in the Bronx was killed in a gang shooting. In my district, a church during the worship service had to stop, the police officer had to pull the pastor from the pulpit because an individual was shooting outside of the church. When we talk about numbers and when we show statistics, I think it's important we should be basing our policy decisions on facts and reality, but for the individuals who are at that church service, for the family and community of that 13-year-old, those stats don't mean anything.

We do not feel safe, and we know science has told us that trauma just doesn't affect the individual that is a victim or the immediate family but it, in fact, affects the entire community, and that's what we have to deal with. This is something that is urgent. I understand why it's important for the administration to try to show some progress on it, and the fact is that a year-to-date comparison from June to last June that there was a decrease, but we see that across the state there has been an increase.

From January to June, there has been an increase as compared to last year. My focus really is on assuring the community that those of us who have the power to are bringing every single tool we have to bear to stop this violence. The statistics are one thing but how people feel, is also really important, and I think it's incumbent on us to assure them that we're doing everything possible.

Brigid Bergin: I'm speaking with state Senator Zellnor Myrie about the state's effort to combat gun violence here in the city and across the state. Senator Myrie, last week you wrote an op-ed for the online news site, City Limits titled, Job One for NYC's Next Mayor is Tackling Gun Violence. It included the line, "We cannot arrest our way out of this problem. Given that Eric Adams, the Brooklyn borough president has said that he'd bring back the plainclothes street crime unit focused on guns, are you concern that will be his approach if he does become the new mayor as seems likely?

Senator Myrie: I don't want to speculate as to what our future mayor may or may not be doing, in the public safety space before they get the opportunity to define that for themselves, but I will stand by the statement that this is not a problem in which we can arrest our way out of it. It has not worked. We are arresting people at a higher rate than we have in the past 15 years, yet the gun violence remains and in some neighborhoods, like the ones that I represent has increased. We can't just rely on more police officers. If that were the solution, we would be the safest place on the planet.

I think that there is a role for law enforcement in stemming gun violence. Of course, there is. I have worked with a number of my local police officers in our anti-violence efforts, but I think that we need to give the same enthusiasm and resources on the prevention side and that isn't just violence interrupters. I worked very closely with a number of those groups and they do need more resources, but we need to fund our afterschool programs. We need to fund our summer youth jobs. We need to invest on the front end so that we're not spending on the back end and waiting to put someone in handcuffs to stem this problem.

I'm hopeful. Borough President Adams has been talking about gun violence, way before he ran for mayor. As some of you may know, I represent the Senate district that he used to represent before he became borough president. These issues are very real to us. This isn't theoretical, this is something that I think both of us are going to be serious about tackling, and hopefully, if he is the victor in November, we will be working in tandem to tackle this scourge.

Brigid Bergin: Senator Myrie, we really appreciate you sticking around with us. We're going to take one more caller Medi, in Astoria Queens. Medi, welcome to WNYC.

Medi: Thank you so much for taking my call. I represent Astoria Values, we're a community center. We deal with a lot of kids that have been victimized by police. The problem is they don't know how to react, and they don't have the patients to react properly, as you can imagine, and this leads to tragedy. I would be very grateful if you could share with your listeners how these youths can avail themselves of the laws then go about filing a lawsuit against the police, what they physically need to do because I think if they knew or understood more about how they could file lawsuits, they wouldn't just be yelling at police, "I'm going to sue you." Then do nothing about it later on. Kudos to you for standing up to the police. Again, I have friends that are police. The police are not the problem. It's accountability. I think we're all just looking for accountability so that the people that do violate the law are held accountable. I'd be grateful if you could talk to that.

Brigid Bergin: Listeners I just want to remind, remind for those who don't know that Senator Myrie filed a lawsuit with assemblywoman, Diana Richardson over how they were treated by the NYPD while participating in a Black Lives Matter protest last year. Senator Myrie in answering that question, if you could maybe also describe a little bit about what happened to you and the lawsuit you filed?

Senator Myrie: Firstly, thank you to the caller for that question. I think there are many of our young people who could benefit from knowing how the system works a little bit more. Before I address that directly, I'll say we did file a lawsuit in federal court and I don't want to speak too much to the details of the case as it is an ongoing litigation. What's in the complaint really tells the story. I went out to protest first as a Black man in this country, but also as an elected representative who had relationships with law enforcement hoping to be a bridge between protesters and police officers. For the first time in my life, I was assaulted. I was pepper-sprayed. I was handcuffed even though I had a clearly identifiable neon shirt with my name on the back.

What it really showed me is that no matter what station you are in life, regardless of your degrees, regardless of your status that you too can be a victim of police misconduct. That is a systemic problem. That is a part of the reason why we brought this lawsuit. To the caller's question specifically, we have a system that ostensibly is supposed to allow for easier accountability and that's the CCRB. Unfortunately, that institution doesn't have the teeth that it needs in order to hold the department truly accountable. Ultimately, the decision on whether or not a police officer will be disciplined for their misconduct is left up to the police commissioner or the judges that are overseeing that trial on the discipline hearing they are on the police payroll as well.

I believe that we have to fix the system in order to make it more accessible to our young folks or anyone who is a victim of police misconduct. I think that any police officer who was doing the right thing is going to be in favor of this, they don't want to be painted with a broad brush. It is very hard to put on a uniform and riskier life every single day. You shouldn't be characterized by the worst elements in your institution. What we have seen is that systemically there was no real accountability and there is a culture that says that if you commit a misconduct, that there will not be real consequences for that. That is a stain on the entire department and one in which I think we have to address from a policy standpoint. I sponsored a number of bills but there are also a number of other bills by my colleagues to help get to that question specifically.

Brigid Bergin: Senator Myrie, thank you so much for that. The last thing, can you remind folks how they can hear or participate in the hearings you're holding into the way elections are conducted in New York?

Senator Myrie: We're going to be doing a more formal announcement. We'll send out all of that information either today or early on in this week. I'd encourage folks if you want to reach out to my office now to be the first to get some of that information, please shoot us an email @Myrie M-Y-R-I-E @NYSenate.gov, but we will be making an announcement. We'll be pushing it out so that everyone can have an opportunity to weigh in.

Brigid Bergin: We'll have to leave it there. Senator Zellnor Myrie chairs the New York State Election Committee and represents the 20th District in Brooklyn. Senator, thank you so much.

Senator Myrie: Brigid, always a pleasure to be with you.

Brigid Bergin: Coming up later in the show, our local COVID vaccination rates and how people are having success, convincing loved ones to get the shots. Plus, WNYC's Jay Vanasco has plenty of arts and culture recommendations for your summer calendar.

 

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