[music]

Matt Katz: You're listening to All Of It. I'm Matt Katz in for Alison Stewart. I'm grateful you're spending part of your day with us. If you're also a listener supporter, I'm especially grateful today given that it's our pledge drive. Thank you. Coming up on the show today, we'll have live music in Studio 5. Author Sloane Crosley is here to talk about her new book, Grief Is for People. It's Thursday, which means it's time for our Food for Thought series. Joining me are J. Kenji López-Alt and Deb Perelman, hosts of the new podcast, The Recipe. That's the plan, so let's get this hour started with a conversation about how to spend your leap day.

[music]

Matt Katz: Today is leap day where once every four years, we get an extra 24 hours in February. Now, it is not a holiday, but it can still be a day for some inspiration. If you ever watched Frasier, the hit '90s, early 2000s sitcom, you may remember season 3, episode 16 when Frasier Crane gets inspired by Leap Day.

Frasier Crane: Oh, dad, this birthday only comes around once every four years. As a matter of fact, this day only comes around once every four years. It's like a free day, a gift. We should do something special. Be bold. It's leap year, take a leap.

Martin: I was just about to say the same thing to you.

[laughter]

Matt Katz: Seattle's favorite radio psychiatrist then goes on the air and encourages his listeners to have the courage to take their own leap.

Frasier Crane: A glorious good afternoon, Seattle. This is Dr. Frasier Crane. I'm thinking a lot today about leap year. Today is February 29th, and although it isn't an official holiday, perhaps it could be looked upon as one in a metaphorical sense. Just as Christmas reminds us to be generous of spirit, so leap year reminds us to take a leap in our own lives. To be bold, try something new. Too often we shrink from doing things we really want to, held back by, oh, appearing foolish perhaps. I'm reminded of a quotation by John Greenleaf Whittier, "For of all sad words of tongue or pen, the saddest are these. It might have been."

Matt Katz: The episode plays out like this. The show's main characters, encouraged by Frasier, all attempt leaps of their own, but the leaps of Niles, Marty, Roz, and Daphne all end up going horribly wrong. Frasier's leap is to break out of his own routine. Every year during the PBS winter pledge drive, he sings a fun, easy tune, but this year he tells his listeners he's going to take a leap and sing a really difficult song. In seeing the other characters' leaps fail at the last minute, Frasier backs out. He doesn't take his own advice and sings his usual safe and easy song. What happens, though, as you'll hear, is that he forgets the words on live TV.

[MUSIC - Frasier: Look Before You Leap]

[laughter]

Matt Katz: Now, Frasier's leaps may not have worked out, but his message can still be true. The leap day can be a fun opportunity to try something new, to be bold, to finally do that thing you've been meaning to do for years even in the face of fear and hesitation. Fortunately for you, I will not be singing today, but with me now to talk about taking a leap on leap day and take your calls is Chris Duffy, comedian and host of the podcast How to Be a Better Human. He's also kindly joining us while on paternity leave for his new baby. Hi, Chris.

Chris Duffy: Hi.

Matt Katz: Welcome back to WNYC and congratulations on the baby.

Chris Duffy: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on the show. I'm glad to be here on a real leap of a segment-

Matt Katz: [laughs]

Chris Duffy: -where we're recapping Frasier and then going for it. I love it.

Matt Katz: Exactly right. Tell me how old the baby is before we--

Chris Duffy: About to be three months.

Matt Katz: Oh, wow. Oh, you're fresh in it.

Chris Duffy: Oh, we're taking a leap by even scheduling being awake at any time during the day. That's my leap for today.

Matt Katz: Absolutely. Good for you. Nice. Listeners, let's hear from you. Inspired by Dr. Frasier Crane, if you could, what kind of leap would you want to take in your life today on leap day or just this leap year? Maybe it's finally getting around to that thing you've been meaning to do for a while or pursuing a new hobby, or putting yourself out there in any new way. Call us or text us, 212-433-WNYC. That's 212-433-9692, 212-433-9692. Do you have any traditions you do in the leap year? Comes around every four years. Were you actually born on February 29th? How do you celebrate your birthday when it comes around? 212-433-WNYC.

If you were to break out of your daily routine on leap day today, what would you want to do and why? Give us a call. You could also reach out to us on social media @AllOfItWNYC. Chris, why do you think a leap day can be this opportunity for people to reassess their life a bit or even just do something small that might be a little bit out of their comfort zone and try something new?

Chris Duffy: Listen, I think it's so easy to get caught in routines and just doing the exact same thing day in and day out. The next thing you know, you wake up and the month is over and then the year is over and time is just flowing by. Anytime there's something a little special and a little weird, a little different, even though we all know February 29th is just another day, it doesn't feel like another day. It feels like a special little bonus. That's a great opportunity to take advantage of that feeling, use it, put it towards something. I think that's the real fun possibility.

Matt Katz: There can be positive effects on your mental and emotional well-being, I guess, if you try something new in general anytime, let alone on leap day.

Chris Duffy: I love the challenge that a psychologist would have to do a peer-reviewed study on that because they would literally have to take 12 years to even get three shots at it.

Matt Katz: [laughs] Right.

Chris Duffy: I don't know how deep the research is on that, but if there's someone out there, please, I admire your dedication to working only one day a year in academia for every four years. That is a true leap of tenure.

Matt Katz: Beyond the study, what do you think the benefits could be by just trying something new and taking that leap?

Chris Duffy: I think one of the biggest benefits of trying something new and taking a leap is it creates a memory. It's like a signpost in your mind of a time. I think we all know that you remember a trip or your first day in a new apartment or your first date. We remember those so much more than the 13th month that we lived in a place or the 30th meal that we ate with a person. This is a chance to put one of the signposts and to create a little marker in your brain and in your memory.

Also, I am a big believer that if you let yourself surprise yourself, you might discover that you are not necessarily exactly the person that you've been telling yourself you are. A small example is I'm colorblind, so I am very hesitant to try and take a fashion statement because if I put on a color, I often am like, "I think this is blue." Then someone goes, "That is actually purple. You are making a different statement than you think and it clashes very hard." When I do wear non-beige or gray outfits, I actually feel like, "Wow, is this me? Maybe this is the new Chris. Maybe he wears bold colors." It's fun. I'm not wearing bold colors right now, but you never know, I could be that person someday.

Matt Katz: Right. We got a text from a listener. The leap this listener says he or she's going to take is telling that amazing woman in my building that I am crazy about her. Wow.

Chris Duffy: Wow. A leap that could go either way. I hope it goes well.

Matt Katz: I hope it works. If they were to get married, they would have to get married on leap day four years from now.

Chris Duffy: Absolutely. You have to have your anniversary be leap day. If it doesn't work and this person is not interested, that is great. You just nod and never bring it up again and then it'll just be a slightly more awkward moment in the elevator for the rest of your time.

Matt Katz: Right. You might have to move. You might have to take that leap and move to a different building. If that works out, listener, you got to let us know. That's amazing.

Chris Duffy: Please.

Matt Katz: Chris and I want to go to the wedding. Listeners, if you could, what kind of leap would you want to take in your life today on leap day? Break out of your daily routine. Why? What would it be? Give us a call. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. You can also text us at that number. Maybe you have a tradition when it comes to leap year every four years. Is your birthday today? That would be another great one. Give us a buzz. 212-433-9692. Chris, we all procrastinate about different things, particularly goals in life. Are there things we always tell ourselves we want to get around to, but we procrastinate and put it off indefinitely? Why do we do that?

Chris Duffy: I know that I do that because it seems like if I put it off another day, it'll be easier and then I'll have more time. I'll be in the perfect headspace. I'll be inspired. Yet I think we've all had the experience of checking something off your to-do list that's been on there forever-

Matt Katz: Yes. Oh my God.

Chris Duffy: -and it feels so incredible. It's an incredible relief. If you're the person who's been like, "I'll do that next year. I'll do that another year. I'll do that on February 29th," which doesn't come around very often, it is one of those things where I think we're bad at predicting what makes us feel good. We think that not doing the thing that we're thinking about, "Oh, it'd be so good to just not," but in fact, doing it, tackling it is a huge sense of relief. Maybe we're trying to create a little holiday here where people take those things and can actually just do them or take a leap and stop pushing it off till tomorrow because this is a bonus tomorrow.

Matt Katz: Right. I recently cleaned my oven, took off all the things and cleaned out all the holes where the gas comes out. It had been on my to-do list for three or four years, honestly. It was a long time and it felt incredibly good. Maybe something mundane could be done on leap day and give you that same satisfaction crossing that thing off the to-do list, even if it's something silly.

Chris Duffy: Oh, absolutely. Also cleaning the top of an oven is-- what a wonderful jaunt down nostalgia of meals past where you get to see like, "Oh, yes, I ate pasta seven months ago. That's where one of those little pastas went."

Matt Katz: Absolutely. [laughs] Taking a leap on leap day could mean trying to do something more profound like repairing a relationship in some way, maybe reach out to a friend you've lost contact with, maybe somebody you haven't spoken to in a while for whatever reason. Is there any advice you might have about trying to approach that kind of conversation if you wanted to call somebody or shoot somebody a text that you might've fallen out with for whatever reason back when?

Chris Duffy: Yes. I don't know if it's exactly about people falling out with, but someone that you've lost touch with. A couple of times on the podcast How To Be A Better Human, we've interviewed psychologists or experts who have cited a number of different studies and research that show that we tend to overestimate how awkward it will be to reach out to someone and tends to underestimate how happy they will be to hear from us.

One of the really consistent things that I've heard from people about how to improve your day and how to build a bigger network of friends and people who you can reach out to is to just go back in your text messages and find someone that you haven't texted a long time and just say, "Hey, I was thinking about you. I hope you're having a great day," or, "Hey, happy leap day. I hope you're doing something fun with this bonus time."

People think that that kind of thing will not matter to the person who gets it, and yet people love to be thought of, people love to be reached out to, especially when it's not with something in mind, when it's not an ask, it's just a thought. I've tried to do this in my own life. I've tried to incorporate that and I am really amazed by how good I feel just giving someone a quick call and leaving a message saying, "Hey, I hope you're doing great," or, "Do you have time to talk for two minutes? I'm walking to the grocery store." That kind of thing.

Matt Katz: You give somebody else a moment of joy by just doing that. People like to be thought of and they like to get that random text or call.

Chris Duffy: Of course. I think we've all had this feeling sometimes, especially in such a big busy city as New York that you're walking around and you go just, "Wow, am I invisible? There's so many people, but no one acknowledges me and I'm just walking around and not seeing or interacting with people." When someone actually does see you and call you or say that they're thinking about you, it's just such a positive, validating moment. No one doesn't like being invited to things and no one doesn't like being thought of.

Matt Katz: Totally. Tell us about what leap you might be taking today or this year. Give us a call. Shoot us a text. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. Let's go to the phone lines. Matt from Westchester. Hi, Matt.

Matt: Hey, how's it going?

Matt Katz: Going great. Thanks for calling in. Happy leap day to you.

Matt: Yes, sure. Thanks. Thank you so much. Happy leap day to you.

Matt Katz: Thanks.

Matt: It's a fun one. Beautiful one, actually. Beautiful and cold.

Matt Katz: Yes, that's right. Tell us your leap day story.

Matt: I took a leap of faith eight years ago and got married to my current wife and partner. Marriage was definitely a really scary thing for me at the time, even talking to my therapist about it at the time, but took the leap and it's been great. We have two beautiful children. We lived in Queens at the time and since moved up to Westchester and are having a really [chuclles] wonderful life. It turned out to be a really good leap. Today is our second anniversary.

Matt Katz: Oh, congratulations. Great.

Chris Duffy: Great. An amazing anniversary. Your anniversary is leap day. What a great leap. I love it that people have twice now interpreted this in this way of taking a big emotional leap. That's so beautiful.

Matt Katz: Matt, how do you celebrate your anniversary? Do you not [chuckles] celebrate the other three years?

Matt: I think we acknowledge it. It's always a question of like, "Is it February 28th or March?" We always think March 1st, but I think it's pretty subdued in other years. We also have these young children now, so that also-

Matt Katz: Sure.

Matt: -takes something from our time, but we do try to acknowledge it. Our last one was 2020 and so traveling was not an option at that point because everything shut down a couple of weeks later. This one, we are actually going to head up to the Mohonk Mountain House for a little night away, gifting to ourselves. We are very fortunate to have my father coming down-

Matt Katz: Do some babysitting.

Matt: -help take care of our children.

Matt Katz: Great.

Matt: Yes. We're going try to enjoy this beautiful day outside, maybe take a hike and try to reflect on that leap of faith we took eight years ago and two anniversaries ago.

Matt Katz: I love that. I love that, Matt. Congratulations to you guys. I hope you have a relaxing and romantic weekend.

Chris Duffy: No clearer sign of a long-term happily married couple and parents of young children than that the anniversary flexibly is this time.

Matt Katz: [chuckles]

Chris Duffy: That it can move between a few days. What day is it ever really?

Matt Katz: Yes. Logistics can affect an anniversary celebration when you got little ones at home. Let's go to Sharon in Queens. Hi, Sharon.

Sharon: Hi. I'm taking the time to sit down and write maybe a couple of one-pagers to the people who have stood in the gaps for my mom and dad. I lost my mom and dad a while ago. One of them are my two neighbors. One is 97 on one side of my house and the other one is 96.

Matt Katz: Wow.

Chris Duffy: I'm just going to try to visit them, spend the afternoon, and also just write a couple of letters to people that are not telephone people, but I know they read. It's a lost art to write letters and I've been trying to get my granddaughters to help me with that.

Matt Katz: Oh, wow. That's wonderful. Do you want to just tell them that you appreciate them and that you enjoy having them in your life?

Sharon: [crosstalk] Yes. They've been there just as long as my parents. My neighbors were the first Blacks that moved on my block. When I lost my mom and dad, they were there for me.

Chris Duffy: Sharon, I love that. I think that's such a beautiful idea, especially to write them a letter. I used to be an elementary school teacher. One of the really profound things that I learned from a master teacher there was that when you have a tough conversation, when something's gone wrong, make a phone call home to the parents, but if something's gone really right, write a letter because then they can keep it and cherish it. I feel like you're doing the exact same thing there, which is giving them something that they can really hold on to and find that shows how much you care about them. That's such a beautiful idea.

Matt Katz: Totally beautiful and inspiring. Sharon, thank you so much for calling. Lisa in Chelsea. Hi, Lisa. Thanks for calling in. Oh, Lisa's not there. My apologies. Let me ask you a question.

Chris Duffy: True leap.

Matt Katz: [laughs] I might have leaped to the wrong phone line there.

Chris Duffy: [laughs]

Matt Katz: Chris, you have this baby. You're on paternity leave and you're caring for the new baby. Obviously, being a father is a leap in and of itself. Is there another leap that you'd like to discuss with us about what you're doing today or this year?

Chris Duffy: You're talking about a non-parental leap.

Matt Katz: A non-parental leap.

Chris Duffy: I think that it's really lovely that so many people who have called have interpreted this in big relational emotional leaps. I think obviously the big relational and emotional leaps that I'm doing are in that parent space, but I think it's also fun to do some lower stakes really small leaps. For me, one of the things that I'm going to do is I'm going to take a walk today and I'm just going to go into a store or a restaurant or a shop on the block that I've never been in before. I'm just going to say like, "All right. I've always walked past that place and it seemed like it had nothing to do with any of my interests, but now I'm going to see what's going on in there. What's that weird shop that seems to only sell cowboy boots or something like that? I want to see what the deal is."

Matt Katz: [chuckles] Nice.

Chris Duffy: I'm going to take today as a tiny leap to just expand my mental geography of the place where I live.

Matt Katz: I love that. Lisa, I'm sorry we didn't get to you. We're having a little technical issue here, but Lisa did want to tell us, Lisa in Chelsea, that her father-in-law was a February 29th baby. We used to groan every year because he said he only had birthdays every four years, which was of course the joke. Since his passing, they've taken such great joy in the day, this family, Lisa's family has. Today would have been his 24th birthday. Happy birthday to Lisa's father-in-law.

Thank you so much for sharing that story. Thank you to the listeners for sharing the story and to Chris Duffy. Really appreciate it. Thanks for coming on All Of It and talking about your leaps and leap day. Your podcast is How To Be A Better Human. It's wonderful. Everybody should check it out. Thanks so much, Chris.

Chris Duffy: Thanks for having me.

 

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