Title: The War And Treaty's New Album 'Plus One' (Live from CR5).

[MUSIC - Luscious Jackson: Citysong]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It on WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. One of our favorite bands around here at All Of It is back with a new album. The War and Treaty dropped Plus One on Valentine's Day, a perfect release date for this band whose members are married couple Tanya and Michael Trotter. The music is deeply influenced and infused with the love in all of its forms. There's a lot more I can say about them. They're Grammy nominees, American Music Award winners, a movie's being made about them, but the true fact is they make great music. Welcome to The War and Treaty. It is so nice to talk to all of you.

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: Thank you for that. Thank you so much. We're excited to be here.

Alison Stewart: Would you introduce everybody before we get our next song?

Michael Trotter: Sure.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, of course. I'm Tanya Trotter.

Michael Trotter: I'm Michael.

Alison Stewart: Hello.

Tanya Trotter: We're The War and Treaty. This is our amazing band. This is Slim Holmes.

Michael Trotter: Slim's on keys. Then there's Max Brown on guitar over there.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, and Tom Davis on bass right there.

Michael Trotter: Back there, all caged up is Bam on the drums.

Alison Stewart: All right. You're going to play our first song for us. What are we going to hear?

Michael Trotter: Can I Get An Amen.

Alison Stewart: Amen, yes.

Michael Trotter: Amen. Let's do it.

[MUSIC - The War and Treaty: Can I Get An Amen]

Alison Stewart: Amen. Can I just tell you, how many times can I say it? [laughs] That's The War and Treaty. I was sitting there listening, and I was thinking, "They produced this record at the Fame Studios," right?

Michael Trotter: Yes.

Tanya Trotter: Yes.

Alison Stewart: The Muscle Shoals sound. How does making a record there influence how it sounds, Tanya?

Tanya Trotter: The history. When you think of that room and you think of all the people that have had the opportunity to stand behind that booth and what they brought, so the going in the door, immediately, the standards are high. Not just the singers, but the musicians that have also played in that room. It just changes how you approach your songs, and it changes how you come into your sessions. There's a reverence in that building. Us and our band, what we brought to that was that reverence. We're very excited that we had an opportunity to record it there.

Alison Stewart: Michael, The New York Times profile said, here's the headline, The War and Treaty Are Writing Their Love Story Into Country Music History. Why do you think country music is a good vehicle for telling your personal story?

Michael Trotter: Well, I think it's always a good vehicle when it's an opportunity to tell a different story. I think that's the key and the goal here. I think so many people believe country music is one way, it looks this one way, it represents this one thing. What Tanya and I do is we're bringing the representation, but also, we're doing a return. Our journey with country music began with Ray Charles, and then country music's journey itself. A lot of people, they go way back with the banjo, but if you will go and you look at some of those stories that the Carter family have, and sitting with those Black families and those Black farmers and just those Black Southerners, they are the originators of country music. They looked exactly like Tanya and I.

Alison Stewart: The banjo came from Africa?

Michael Trotter: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: Tanya before The War and Treaty, you were a soloist working in R&B and gospel. What was your move into country music? Was it intentional? Was it something just came and found you?

Tanya Trotter: I would have to say that country music, it found me. As Michael said, it's always been storytelling, and the truth has always been the foundation of gospel music. I think that I've always had my foot in what I know as traditional storytelling. The country music industry just found Michael and I. We moved from Michigan and we didn't even really know that there was a such thing called the Americana genre. We were just doing music that we loved.

Albion, Michigan introduced us to the blues all over again. It's not that we didn't know it, but it really ignited something different in us. We infused the blues and the gospel, and it just happened to have certain instruments in there that lean into country music. I think that the country music genre, it really found us and welcomed us with open arms because of maybe the soulful sounds that are on top of instruments that people may not have heard those voices collaborate with in this era.

Alison Stewart: As they say, three chords and the truth, right?

Tanya Trotter: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Next song you're going to play is called The Glorious Ones. Is this the last song on the record?

Michael Trotter: It is.

Tanya Trotter: Of course.

Alison Stewart: It is, right?

Michael Trotter: It is, yes.

Alison Stewart: Okay, good. It's a hymn that you and Tanya wrote for each other. First of all, why'd you decide to make it the last song on the record?

Michael Trotter: Great question. Thanks for asking. Because at the end of the day, at the end of all my days, it's just she and I. That's what makes my life glorious at the moment. It doesn't get no better than that.

Alison Stewart: All right. Well, let's hear it. This is The Glorious Ones from The War and Treaty.

Michael Trotter: All right. Max Brown on acoustic guitar. Tom Davis on bass. Bam on drums. Slim on keys. Let's go, y'all.

[MUSIC - The War and Treaty: The Glorious Ones]

Alison Stewart: That's The War and Treaty singing The Glorious Ones. It's off their new album. It is called Plus One. I think there are 18 songs on the record?

Tanya Trotter: Yes.

Alison Stewart: Okay. What went into that choice?

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: Well, we had a lot of songs. We recorded, I believe, 60 songs, maybe more.

[laughter]

Alison Stewart: 60?

Tanya Trotter: Yes, for this record.

Alison Stewart: It's getting laughs from over here.

Tanya Trotter: Yes. There's a double vinyl when you buy the record.

Michael Trotter: Oh, really?

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: We recorded a lot of songs.

Michael Trotter: There's a bus flowing through here somewhere and I'm being thrown under.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, Michael's feet are hanging from under the bus.

Alison Stewart: Michael, what went into that choice? [laughs]

Michael Trotter: A love of the music and a lack of somebody telling me to stop. That's what that is. I.e. Tanya.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, he can't be stopped. When he's in a riding zone, that's it.

Alison Stewart: Well, you also are producers on the record, which means you get to make those kinds of decisions.

Michael Trotter: That's right.

Tanya Trotter: Yes. See?

Alison Stewart: What is a sonic decision, a decision you made that seemed a little risky?

Michael Trotter: It is risky.

Alison Stewart: That's risky?

Michael Trotter: Yes. I don't know. I think in a time where people who play it safe lose, we're seeing it. We're seeing it in everyday life. The War and Treaty, we're not a safe band. We take risks, whether it be musical risk or whether it be fashion risk. We take those risks and we take them proudly. At the end of the day, we take those risks because they're honest. That's all.

Alison Stewart: In terms of producing the album, Tanya, what does it say to you that you're at a place where you want to produce your own music versus just songwriting and handing it in?

Tanya Trotter: Well, I think it says growth and it says that you-- I think over time, you do learn to trust yourself as a musician, as an artist, and now co-producer on a lot of our projects. It's growing into trusting yourself because it does seem easier to just write a bunch of songs and give it to someone and let them nurture it into the world, but when you decide that you know what it sounds like, you want to know what your mixes sound like, you want to give the freedom to your band to be creative as well, and sometimes-

Michael Trotter: Oh, really?

Tanya Trotter: -you don't have that with the musicians.

Michael Trotter: They're not that good.

Tanya Trotter: Yes. [laughs] You want the freedom. I think it says that you've grown into a place where you really just want to have the freedom to have what it is that you write and you create to sound the way that you want it to sound when it hits the ear wave of your fans.

Michael Trotter: Also, I'm the producer.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, he is.

[laughter]

Michael Trotter: It was me.

Alison Stewart: Well, side-eye.

Tanya Trotter: It was all him.

Alison Stewart: That was straight-up side-eye.

Michael Trotter: It was not Tanya. Tanya is the co.

Tanya Trotter: They're silent because they know.

Michael Trotter: Tanya's the co. Like, wait a little bit. Like a little itty bitty. We say co softly, but I'm the producer.

Alison Stewart: Our producer.

Michael Trotter: Yes.

Tanya Trotter: I get all of this at 3:00 AM in the morning.

Michael Trotter: Only if this project fails is she the actual producer.

Alison Stewart: Understood.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, if it doesn't work, then I'll take it.

Alison Stewart: As a producer, what did you learn about the way The War and Treaty have grown?

Michael Trotter: I'd like to now defer this question to Tanya.

Tanya Trotter: No.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] You can use the word growth. She used the word growth.

Michael Trotter: I'll tell you what. I produced our album called Hearts Town. Completely different experience. I think the first thing that I have learned is that no producer knows what they're really doing without a cast. For me, Tanya is my supporting cast in everything, but I got another brain, another side of my brain when it comes to producing. That is the side that is irritating and throbbing. Its name is Max Brown. He's right there. He is someone who you have to get out of the way and in the way at the same time. That's what makes it all work.

Then with your musicians, you have to literally tell them, be you. Especially this group. This group, they like to think they know what they're doing when they go in the studio and producing. Then they're like playing all safe and quiet. I'm like, "What in the heck are y'all doing? Go for it. Be yourself." The biggest lesson in all of this is this one thing. Always let Tanya lead. You won't fail.

Tanya Trotter: He's getting brownie points right now.

Alison Stewart: Okay.

[laughter]

Michael Trotter: No brownie point. I'm actually being extremely serious.

Tanya Trotter: Oh, you are? Okay.

Michael Trotter: I haven't failed in life when that has happened. I think Hearts Town was a failure, in my opinion, because I have a hashtag called More Tanya. I think that that is a very important hashtag to have. More Tonya in the story. More Tanya speaking. More Tanya in her fashion, as you so kindly are wearing one of Tanya's designs that she didn't even acknowledge. You see how I do?

[laughter]

Tanya Trotter: I don't have my glasses on, so I have to make sure.

Michael Trotter: That's a nice excuse.

Tanya Trotter: Thank you.

Michael Trotter: We're talking about a voice of our time. In my opinion, Tanya is one of the greatest, if not the greatest vocalist that I believe needs some to shine. Our next project pieces for me is the hashtag, More Tanya.

Tanya Trotter: Oh, that's so sweet, honey.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk fashion while we're here.

Tanya Trotter: [laughs] Let's talk fashion.

Alison Stewart: Shelovesvintage.com, do you still run it?

Tanya Trotter: I do, yes. I took a break from it to make this record because it's another child. You have to dedicate a lot of time. Then we have the tour coming up. Once the tour starts, we'll have-- Thank you so much for wearing it.

Alison Stewart: I'm wearing She Loves Vintage shirts.

Tanya Trotter: Yes. We'll have all the merch and everything. I'm very excited about that as well.

Alison Stewart: All right. We're talking to The War and Treaty. There's a song on the album called I Can't Let You Go. It busts out and then it rocks out. Then you have like spoken word and rap at the end. What led you to that sort of shift in the album? It's like, "Whoa, wait a minute."

Michael Trotter: As a producer, I'm going back to that. It's very strategic who you have in the studio as your musicians. So many producers, they don't want your band. I think that's what makes me special because I want my band. I can't see me doing anything without Bam, Slim, Tom, Max, period. They invoke something in me. They bring out that guy. They do. The way they play, their swag. Sometimes they do certain things and it points me to an old life. I used to-- I mean, I still do. I'm a hip-hop head.

We're in New York, baby. The greatest MCs ever resonate from here. That was a side of me to where I write a lot of poetry and I write a lot of rhymes. The way they were just doing it, I was like, "Man, I'm going to have to spit right here." Might not be that good because we have an emcee in the band right there, Bam. I ran it all through him, Slim, Tom, and that's what did it for me. I was like, "I got to pop the collar on this one."

Tanya Trotter: [laughs]

Alison Stewart: I wanted to talk about the movie in the works. It's produced by John Legend, right?

Tanya Trotter: Yes.

Alison Stewart: How did that opportunity come up, Tanya?

Tanya Trotter: Well, let me think. We were in Nashville, and a friend of ours, he-- Actually, no, I'm sorry. Let me backtrack. We were in Connecticut, and we were doing-- Andrew Gold. I'm going to say his name. We were there doing a show, and Andrew came to our show. We thought he was coming to see the show, but we started telling our story. Andrew was like, "One second. Let me get my tape recorder." He had this big old tape recorder from the 1960s. He pushed play and he started listening to our story. He'd taken that to his brother's roommate. I'm going somewhere.

Alison Stewart: I got you. His brother's roommate, I'm with you.

Tanya Trotter: Who happened to be, I believe it was Will, Will McCormack. They went to college together. Will is a writer. I think Will and Craig. Craig did Dallas Buyers Club. Will did all kinds of stuff.

Michael Trotter: Toy Story 4.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, Toy Story 4.

Michael Trotter: Several projects with Rashida Jones.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, with Rashida Jones.

Alison Stewart: That's a good thing.

Tanya Trotter: Let them hear our story from this cassette. They got on the phone. They were like, "We want to do a story on you guys." We were just blowing it off. We were like, "Yay. Some Hollywood producers and writers are wanting to do a story on Will and us sitting in Nashville." They flew to Nashville. They had a studio. They set Michael and I down in front of a camera, and we sat there and told our story for about three, four hours, I believe.

Michael Trotter: Exactly, yes.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, it was about three or four hours. Maybe a couple of weeks later, they were like, "Hey, we have a couple other people who want to come on board." We met Harvey Mason Jr. at that time.

Michael Trotter: I'm sorry, honey. We got to make sure we get this right. First, Gary Gilbert came on board.

Tanya Trotter: Gary Gilbert, yes.

Michael Trotter: Gary Gilbert is special to the story because he and John Legend actually partnered to give us what we know as La La Land.

Tanya Trotter: La La Land, yes.

Alison Stewart: Oh.

Michael Trotter: Yes, exactly.

Tanya Trotter: [laughs]

Michael Trotter: Then came Harvey.

Tanya Trotter: Then came Harvey.

Alison Stewart: Got you.

Michael Trotter: Harvey Mason Jr. Then Harvey--

Tanya Trotter: Then Harvey brought on John Legend. He called us one day and he was like, "Hey, I think I have somebody who really wants to be involved in this project." Of course, John has done some incredible things with film and theater and all these different things. We were like, "Oh, my God, John Legend."

Michael Trotter: We'll get in trouble if we don't do this. John Legend's partner, first off. One of them is Mike Jackson, who listens to you all the time.

Alison Stewart: Hi, Mike.

Michael Trotter: Mike is the producing partner in Get Lifted films, and then Ty, so the three of them. That's how they--

Tanya Trotter: That's how it happened. John Legend is a part of the film. He'll be producing it along with Gary Gilbert. It just all ties in because our son's name's Legend.

Michael Trotter: That's right. John Legend is one of my favorite artists. Shout-out to Numa Perrier, who is our director. She's a phenomenal director who Oprah named as the next. She is our actual director.

Alison Stewart: When is it going to come out?

Michael Trotter: It's a very interesting thing that I'm going to tell you. We're actually moving now into the casting phase, so I'm super excited about it. We've been batting some things around as to who could play me and then who could play Tanya. I won't say much about this, but I will say this. Here's the tag. The war brought him music. Music brought him love. The film is actually called The War and Treaty.

Alison Stewart: What would a person watching this film take away from your love story, Tanya?

Tanya Trotter: Resilience.

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Tanya Trotter: It's a love story about resilience.

Alison Stewart: What would you say?

Michael Trotter: Fight. I would say fight for your right to exist, your right to your healing, and fight for love.

Alison Stewart: You're doing all the press. When do you go out on tour? Give me the details.

Tanya Trotter: Oh, I'm so excited about this. March 26th is our first day we hit the road. Well, I'm sure the 27th is the first day we hit the road, but our first show is in Minneapolis on March the 26th.

Alison Stewart: Is it going to be just you guys? You're opening for someone? How's it going to be?

Michael Trotter: Oh, it's us. It's our tour, the Plus One tour. Oh, yes, we're touring. We have openers, and it's going to be super, super cool.

Alison Stewart: My guests have been The War and Treaty. Their new album is called Plus One. I understand you're going to be in our area in the spring.

Tanya Trotter: Yes, April the 8th.

Michael Trotter: April 8th, Irving Plaza.

Alison Stewart: Playing at Irving Plaza. It was such a pleasure to have you. We're so excited. We will tell our listeners that we recorded a song before I got in here, so we will play that tomorrow, we say.

Tanya Trotter: Okay. [laughs]

Alison Stewart: Okay. Thank you to everybody. I couldn't get everybody's name, but thank you to all of you for coming in the studio and performing for us. We really, really appreciate it.

Tanya Trotter: Thank you so much.

Alison Stewart: That's all for today. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening, and I appreciate you. I'll meet you back here next time.

[music]