Tuesday Morning Politics with House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries

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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. The House Minority Leader, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of Brooklyn and Queens, will be our first guest today in just a couple of minutes. Stay tuned for him. He will take your calls as well. Today is Holocaust Remembrance Day as many of you know. Technically, it marks the 80th anniversary of the uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto, but it also acknowledges the Holocaust and the survivors among us generally.

Later in the show around 11:30, we'll have an oral history call-in for any Holocaust survivors in our listening audience today. The AP says there are around 240,000 Holocaust survivors still alive. The average age, as calculated by The Times of Israel, around 85 years old. We will invite you to share any one memory that you have of the Holocaust era that you want people to hear, and that you want to live on by saying it out loud. We'll invite you to say how having survived the Holocaust informs your view of world events today.

Again, that's coming up in the 11:30 half-hour of the show. Whatever story you tell us will live on for as long as our website lives on. Hopefully, that'll be forever at wnyc.org. We'll have both audio and a transcript of your calls. Also today, our climate story of the week, which we do every Tuesday. Today, it's how to electrify everything as cleanly as possible. A question we often get from callers is why pro-climate activists emphasize electrification so much since electricity itself has to be generated and then comes from fossil fuels.

We will answer that question and describe what's considered the best practices and cleanest ways to produce all that new electricity. We'll look at the debate over where to put casinos in New York. I believe the state has approved three casino gambling sites. We'll get that number confirmed during the segment, but where they will be located is undecided and contentious. For example, maybe you heard that some Broadway theaters have banded together to oppose a casino for Times Square.

I'll be curious to hear in that segment, why they think making the crossroads of the world, Time Square, even more of a tourist destination will be bad for Broadway plays, whose attendance has never fully recovered since the start of the pandemic. All of that is coming up. We'll start here. Remember how Donald Trump asked his supporters to protest near the courtroom in Manhattan when he learned he'd be indicted for falsifying business records to cover up hush money payments to two women to help his presidential campaign?

Remember when he posted on social media for his supporters to rally en masse when he didn't even really deny the hush money cover-up but called it a witch-hunt anyway? Remember how pretty much nobody showed up? There were no mass protests when he called for them and no mass protests on the day he was arraigned in criminal court downtown.

The Proud Boys didn't show up. Remember that? The Oath Keepers didn't show up. Hardly any of those New Yorkers who voted for George Santos in Queens and on Long Island showed up. Well, guess what? Former President Trump finally found a group of people willing to go to Lower Manhattan en masse and rally in his defense, the Republicans on the House Judiciary Committee.

I guess when you're not really disputing that there was hush money paid to a porn star who says you slept with her while your wife was home with your new baby, and not really disputing that business records were falsified to cover up the hush money, well, I guess what's left is that you tried to change the subject to what a bad guy the district attorney is. Here's Jim Jordan, Republican from Ohio and chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, when he got to Lower Manhattan yesterday.

Jim Jordan: In this country, justice is supposed to be blind regardless of race, religion, or creed. However, here in Manhattan, the scales of justice are weighed down by politics. For the district attorney, justice isn't blind. It's about looking for opportunities to advance a political agenda, a radical political agenda. Rather than enforcing the law, the DA is using his office to do the bidding of left-wing campaign funders.

Brian Lehrer: Jim Jordan at the hearing in Lower Manhattan. Never mind that as DA Bragg pointed out, in Columbus, Ohio, which Chairman Jordan represents, the murder rate is three times that of Manhattan, pointed out that you're five times as likely to be raped in Columbus than Manhattan and seven times more likely to have your car stolen. Jordan did not dispute those numbers nor did he choose to have another crime hearing there. Meanwhile, back at the hearing, New York Democrat Jerrold Nadler, the former judiciary committee chair, got to respond.

Congressman Jerrold Nadler: Let me be very clear. We are here today in Lower Manhattan for one reason and one reason only. The chairman is doing the bidding of Donald Trump. Committee Republicans designed this hearing to intimidate and deter the duly-elected District Attorney of Manhattan from doing the work his constituents elected him to do. They have demanded access to the inner workings of an ongoing criminal case, information to which they know they are not entitled. They have subpoenaed a witness who used to work for the district attorney, whom they know cannot answer their questions. They have earned a lawsuit that risks future congressional oversight as a result.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Jerrold Nadler, Democrat from Manhattan and Brooklyn there, former chair of the Judiciary Committee. Even Mayor Eric Adams with his "former cop, tough on crime, weaken the bail reform law, talk back to progressives in your party" reputation, that Eric Adams, he wasn't having the Jim Jordan show either. He said, "Yes, crime is real, but it's really the GOP that isn't serious about fighting it."

Mayor Eric Adams: It's really troubling that American taxpayers' dollars are being used to come here on this junket to do an examination of the safest big city in America instead of focusing on the real over-proliferation of guns that we have witnessed. As Congressman Nadler has stated, it is the Republican Party that is stopping sensible gun laws, it's the Republican Party that is preventing the proper support and ensuring that police agencies across this country is receiving the necessary support that they deserve.

Brian Lehrer: Mayor Adams outside the hearing yesterday. The two parties went at it inside and also heard very real heart-wrenching stories from victims of crime and their loved ones. Not to downplay those, but remember, the Manhattan hearing, designed to discredit the prosecutor, was a one-day stand. The trial of Donald Trump will go on with the outcome to be decided by an actual jury based on the actual evidence like any other American defendant.

With us now on that and other things, another New York congressman who happens to be the House Democratic leader succeeding Nancy Pelosi this year, as most of you know, Congressman Hakeem Jeffries of Brooklyn and Queens. Leader Jefferies, we appreciate your time today. Welcome back to WNYC.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Good morning, Brian. Great to be back with you.

Brian Lehrer: You were on the House Judiciary Committee yourself, but I'm not sure how this works. Now that you're the minority leader, do you step away from all committee assignments?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: I do. I no longer have the opportunity to serve on the House Judiciary Committee. As you pointed out, I spent my first five terms in Congress serving on that committee, working with the leadership of Jerry Nadler and other members who I think did a great job pointing out what this was all about in terms of the Jim Jordan show. It was a circus.

It was designed to distract from the accountability measures that are being taken with respect to the former twice-impeached president of the United States of America. DA Alvin Bragg has made a decision to present a case. He's going to follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the Constitution. There's a process that is in place. Evidence will be presented to the trier of fact and to a jury. Ultimately, a decision will be rendered.

There are real issues that the American people are confronting, including a gun violence epidemic that is stunning. The leading cause of death for children in America is gun violence, and yet Republicans want to do nothing to try to solve that issue. Instead, they just want to defend and bend the knee to the former twice-impeached president of the United States of America. They're not serious about solving real problems.

Brian Lehrer: Listeners, we can take some calls for House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. We really appreciate that he continues to be accessible to you on the phones as he was before being elected to his national position. 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692 on the issues raised by or around the hearing yesterday or any issue of relevance to Leader Jeffries and his work in Congress, 212-433-WNYC, from the district or outside of it, 212-433-9692.

Leader Jeffries, I mentioned in the intro, the comparative stats that came out about crime in Manhattan and crime in Columbus, Ohio in Jim Jordan's district. Let me give the listeners this in a little more detail. These are expressed in crimes per 100,000 people in each place. In Manhattan in 2022, I'm rounding to the nearest whole number, 5 people out of every 100,000 were murdered. In Columbus, Ohio, it was 15 people out of every 100,000. Rape, 22 in Manhattan. 112 in Columbus. Grand larceny of car, 121 in Manhattan. 845 in Columbus, Ohio per 100,000 residents. Is the Judiciary Committee going next to Columbus to hold a hearing on the crime problem there, Congressman?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: They will not be doing that because these are not serious individuals in terms of the extreme MAGA Republican crowd that is in control right now in the House of Representatives. As you pointed out, Brian, if you just look at all of the members of the House Judiciary Committee on the Republican side who participated, for instance, in the circus yesterday, the political stunt engineered by Jim Jordan at the direction, I'm sure, of Donald Trump, New York City is safer than Ohio.

It's safer than Louisiana. It's safer than Texas. It's safer than South Carolina, safer than Florida, Kentucky, North Carolina, Indiana, Arizona, and Alabama, as well as Wyoming and Bakersfield, California, the hometown of the speaker. We have a lower murder rate. We have a lower rate in terms of serious crimes like rape and robbery and assault, burglary, larceny, motor theft. Now, all crimes should be taken seriously.

We do have to continue to lean into creating the safest environment in New York City as possible. The challenge is, of course, House Republicans are not interested in solving problems in addressing crime in America and dealing with the gun violence epidemic. Because if they were, they'd start in their hometown where the problems are much greater than it exists right now in Manhattan or in New York City.

Brian Lehrer: Some pushback, I imagine you have to acknowledge as you just did that crime is a salient issue for voters right now as you look forward to trying to retake the House next year. I think it's fair to say, your party lost the House majority, largely because of how voters feel about crime in New York as for suburban New York City House seats flipped to GOP last November. That was almost the entire margin of victory. Can you really run the House campaigns next year just by saying Republicans aren't serious enough about gun control, or do you have to do more and say more on this issue?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, the Republicans are extreme on the issue of gun safety, and that's clear, just like they are extreme on the issue of reproductive freedom. We as Democrats support a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive healthcare decisions. Republicans want to criminalize abortion care and impose a nationwide ban. We support democracy.

Republicans are extreme on democracy as well as we've consistently seen trying to stop people from voting, even trying to halt the peaceful transfer of power back in 2021. We're going to point out the differences that exist between the Democratic vision, team reasonable, team normal, team gets stuff done, team America, and team extreme, extreme MAGA Republicans on the other side of the aisle.

At the same time, we will have a vision and an agenda and proposals to continue to make our communities as safe as possible, building upon, Brian, the work that House Democrats and Senate Democrats under the leadership of Leader Schumer and President Biden were able to do in the last Congress and passing gun safety legislation for the first time in 30 years, which will save lives.

It did make gun trafficking a federal crime for the first time in American history. We did authorize $500 million in grant funding, which is now starting to flow to communities across the country to address the challenges related to mental illness. We did authorize $250 million in funding, which is now starting to flow to communities across the country to invest in community-based anti-violence initiatives, but more certainly needs to be done.

We've seen that as a result of some of the events that have just unfolded, whether that's in Louisville, Kentucky, or Nashville, Tennessee. We as House Democrats want to do more. We want to pass universal criminal background check legislation so that you can't simply purchase a weapon of war off of the internet without any background check or go to a gun show being held by the NRA and just purchase a weapon of war without a background check. This is ridiculous.

We should change this. The American people are supportive. We also want to pass an assault weapons ban because weapons of war that are not used to hunt deer but are used to hunt children and slaughter them in classrooms have no place in civilized society. We will lean into these issues, our vision, our agenda of fighting for safer communities in the United States of America while at the same time, Brian, pointing out the fact that the other side of the aisle wants to do nothing to stop the carnage.

Brian Lehrer: Beyond the gun laws issue within the Democratic Party, is there a tension for 2024 between, let's say, an Eric Adams wing and an AOC-Jamaal Bowman wing to take the New York members of the squad that you'll need to get on the same page next year or it doesn't work that way?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, I think we're very unified in our focus, not just in dealing with the issue of gun safety and gun violence prevention, which I think is critical. Again, guns are the leading cause of death for children in America. It should be a top priority for us to address this issue in this country. House Democrats are the only group that is serious in terms of the House of Representatives trying to address gun safety. At the same time, I think we do have a unified perspective and approach that is important for us to strengthen the relationship between the police and the community all across the country so that we can be partners in driving down criminal activity.

I think there's a unified approach to focusing on the persistent violent offenders, the ones who are actually the drivers of crime in communities across America. I think there's a unified approach in making sure that we provide resources to communities throughout the country to address the mental illness challenges that people are confronting, particularly in the aftermath of a once-in-a-century global pandemic, and that we support community-based, anti-violence, and violence interruption initiatives.

Brian Lehrer: Dave in Manhattan, you're on WNYC with Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Hi, Dave.

Dave: Yes, I find it ironic. As everybody knows, Mr. Trump is as innocent as a newborn babe. He's done nothing wrong. Everything he does is perfect. Why does he need a group of Republican congressmen to come to Manhattan to aid him when he's totally innocent? Why is that?

Brian Lehrer: We hear the sarcasm in your voice, Dave. Just saying that out loud for anybody who didn't hear the sarcasm in his voice. Congressman, what Republicans see as the singling out of Donald Trump, they say this is a case that's six years old that might be weak on the facts. That was dropped. Now, it's been revived. You know what happens to come just as Trump is running for president again. You've seen the polls. Most Republicans actually think it's a political prosecution. What would you say, not just be sarcastic, to the people who already agree with you, but maybe to independent voters or to even Republican voters who look at this prosecution with suspicion?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, I think independent voters and reasonable Republican voters understand that in America, no one is above the law. In fact, George Washington, in his farewell address to the nation when he voluntarily walked away from the presidency, said something profound that has always stuck with me since the moment it was first brought to my attention during the first impeachment trial of the former president, where he said that the Constitution in America is sacredly obligatory upon all.

That means everyone, including former presidents of the United States, no one is above the law. In this particular case, again, the Manhattan district attorney, duly elected, is going to, I believe, follow the facts, apply the law, be guided by the Constitution. The great thing about America is that it's not a district attorney that makes a decision as it relates to whether charges have been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It is a jury of Donald Trump's peers.

Now, the issue in America, and this was highlighted by the circus that was led by Jim Jordan in New York City yesterday, is that you have Democrats and Republicans focused on different things. Democrats are focused on trying to resolve real challenges. Protecting Social Security and Medicare, building an economy that works for everyday Americans, reducing the deficit in a responsible way as President Joe Biden's budget would do more than $3 trillion in deficit reduction while, at the same time, protecting Social Security and Medicare, confronting inflation, fighting for reproductive freedom and defending democracy while addressing the gun violence epidemic.

Those are the issues that House Democrats are focused on. Because House Democrats work for the American people, the extreme MAGA Republicans work for Donald Trump. I believe that that contrast is one that the American people will embrace when it comes to Democrats standing with them, for the people, putting people over politics, and will reject when it comes to the extreme MAGA Republicans.

Brian Lehrer: More issues, more of your calls for House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries in a minute. Stay with us.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC with New York Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Amy in Ocean County, New Jersey, you're on WNYC. Hi, Amy. Thanks for calling in.

Amy: Oh, hi. Thank you, Brian. Hello, Congressman Jeffries. It's a pleasure to speak with you. I would like to say that I'm a reasonable Republican, but I think I'm more of a libertarian. I guess I respectfully disagree with you about putting more laws in place because every time that both my husband and I make a purchase for a firearm, whether it be a long rifle or a handgun, we go through rigorous background checks. The state where I live in, New Jersey, we have the red flag laws.

I guess I would just say that if we put even more laws in place that people who want to commit the crime are going to commit them anyway. My point is that we have laws for murder and rape and stealing and burglary, but people still burglarize homes and steal and rape and murder. They do anyway. I guess that's just the point I want to make, Congressman Jeffries, if you know what I mean. I'm all for making new laws, but there's people that are going to break them anyway. I hate to say it. I hate to be such a downer about it.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman, talk to Amy.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, Amy, first of all, thank you so much for your question and for your observation. I will say that what we want to do is make sure that we're bringing reasonable gun safety laws to the entirety of the country so that there's some uniformity. You referenced two things. One, in terms of criminal background check legislation that is in place in New Jersey, what we are endeavoring to do is make sure that everyone in the United States of America, if they want to purchase a firearm, law-abiding citizens such as you and your husband, should go through a background check.

That is what is required in New Jersey. It's not necessarily required in other states because of the gun show loophole and the internet loophole that exists right now. We're working hard to close it. By the way, there is bipartisan support in the House and the Senate to do just that. Extreme MAGA Republicans in the House are blocking us from moving forward with that reasonable legislation.

The other thing that you mentioned is also important, which is red flag laws. They are in place in places like New York and New Jersey and in other states throughout America. I believe even Florida was able to do this in the aftermath of the Parkland shooting. What we want to do is have extreme risk protection, red flag laws in place for everyone in the United States of America so that we can--

Brian Lehrer: She's arguing that they don't make a difference because they're in place, but we still see mass shootings. I think I would say when's the last time you saw a mass school shooting in New Jersey compared to Tennessee, but what would you say to her?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, I think that I wanted to point out exactly as you've indicated, Brian. One, we're never going to be able to eliminate every single shooting in a country where there are more than 400 million guns circulating throughout America, but we can do every single thing possible to make our communities as safe as possible and drive down the number of shootings, the number of murders, the number of extreme events that occur in schools and supermarkets and shopping centers and churches and synagogues and mosques, the type of mass shootings that no other developed country in the world experiences.

It's just the United States of America. I think we can do more. When the assault weapons ban was in place for that 10-year period of time in the mid-90s through the mid-2000s, we did see that mass shootings dropped significantly in the United States of America. We want to move forward with reasonable, strong, common-sense gun safety bills that the American people, not just Democrats, but that Democrats and independents and Republicans support.

Brian Lehrer: Something from the news relevant to the 2024 campaigns. I see that you're being criticized by South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, who's launched a presidential exploratory committee for next year. He's the only Black Republican in the Senate as you know. He picked up on something that The New York Times published recently that you said when you were 21 years old, and sorry to say, that was 31 years ago, about Black conservatives being right-wing opportunists and worse. How do you feel about that today as opposed to Scott and a small number of other Black Americans just genuinely holding more Republican views?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, listen, as it relates to Senator Scott, I believe that he does genuinely hold views I strongly disagree with his perspective on things, whether that is his effort to short-circuit and eliminate reproductive freedom in the United States of America. I think he just indicated his willingness to sign the most extreme ban that would be presented to him that makes it out of Congress if he were to become president. We disagree about gun safety. We disagree about the type of economy that we should invest in.

I think my view over the last five terms has been that we're going to continue to try to find common ground with the other side of the aisle with Republicans, including working with the Trump administration when they were in power to enact strong criminal justice reform legislation. I'm always committed to trying to find common ground with the other side of the aisle. However, what we will not do is allow for their extremism to continue to try to jam their right-wing ideology down the throats of the American people.

Now, there are people, individuals, Clarence Thomas, front and center, who I think it's fair to say is an opportunist. He does not seem to be interested at all in conducting himself in a way that is consistent with an ethical code of judicial behavior. That relates to the activism of Ginni Thomas. That relates to the gifts that he has received and refused to disclose for decades. That relates to some of the unprincipled decisions that I believe he has authored or supported, including the Dobbs decision that stripped away reproductive freedom.

Brian Lehrer: Well, Senator Scott is planting the seeds for a presidential run from the clips I've heard, saying it's not systemic racism but more about personal responsibility, that there is so much racial inequality in this country, especially income inequality and wealth inequality. Do you want to dispute him on the merits?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Well, we have come a long way in America. We've made a lot of progress on the question of racial justice and social justice and economic justice, but we still have a way to go if we are going to fully bring to life principles like equal protection under the law, liberty and justice for all, and free and fair elections. We can agree to disagree with Senator Scott as it relates to his rosy view of what's happening in America right now. We just saw a case in Kansas City, Missouri where a young high school musician who just rang the wrong doorbell was shot seemingly in cold blood.

We'll see what ultimately occurs in terms of the charges. There are issues that remain in America that have to be worked out. It seems like Senator Scott would rather view our entire society with rose-colored glasses. The good news here, Brian, is that the American people, particularly in the aftermath of what happened to George Floyd and what happened to Breonna Taylor, realize that we still have some issues, some challenges, some things that we have to work out in this great country.

Brian Lehrer: I know you got to go in three minutes. Last issue. Speaker Kevin McCarthy was also in Lower Manhattan yesterday, but not at that judiciary committee hearing with Jim Jordan. He spoke at the New York Stock Exchange about the debt ceiling. Listen.

Speaker Kevin McCarthy: Addressing the debt requires us to come together, find common ground, and reduce spending. Let me be clear. Defaulting on our debt is not an option, but neither is a future of higher taxes, higher interest rates, more dependency on China, an economy that doesn't work for working Americans.

Brian Lehrer: He's arguing that the debt ceiling deadline is an opportunity to build in safeguards against too much debt in the future. Is Speaker McCarthy wrong?

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Yes, what's happening is that the extreme MAGA Republicans are conflating two issues. The United States of America should never even threaten a default on our debt. What the extreme MAGA Republicans are doing, they're threatening the full faith and credit of the United States of America in ways that if we were to default, we'd have catastrophic consequences for the American people.

The debt ceiling simply relates to making sure that the Congress and the administration pay bills that have already been incurred. That's why we will continue to make the case to the American people that Congress needs to simply do its job, raise the debt ceiling so we can pay the bills that we have already signed off on as a Congress and as a country, and then we can have a discussion about the types of future investments that should be made in order to lift up the health to safety and economic well-being of the American people.

Brian, in order to do that, we need to actually see the Republican plan. President Biden has produced his budget. He did it over a month ago. It's a budget that will strengthen and protect Social Security and Medicare. It will build an economy that works for everyday Americans. It will also reduce the deficit by trillions of dollars as we move forward and reasonably begin the process of paying off our debt.

The extreme MAGA Republicans have failed to produce a budget. It's in the witness protection program. It's hiding in an undisclosed location. The reason why I believe they failed to produce a proposed budget is because we know what their ultimate objective is. That is to dramatically cut Social Security, dramatically cut Medicare, cut Medicaid, cut veterans' benefits, cut the ability to support our food insecurity programs and our nutrition programs in the United States of America. Their view is deeply unpopular.

What this whole exercise is about is that they want to engage in a hostage-taking situation to force the country to undertake cuts that are deeply unpopular but do it in order to avoid a catastrophic default on our nation's debt that will hurt everyday Americans, dramatically increase mortgage payments, increase car loan payments, increase student loan debt repayment payments. These are all things that should be non-starters here in this country.

Brian Lehrer: Brooklyn Congressman and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Leader Jeffries, we always appreciate it a lot. Thank you so much.

Congressman Hakeem Jeffries: Thanks so much, Brian.

 

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