[music]

Alison Stewart: This is All Of It from WNYC. I'm Alison Stewart. Thousands of runners have trained for the TSC New York City Marathon happening this Sunday, November 5th. However, if you're in the group of people who believe the only reason to run is because someone is chasing you, maybe a new book will change your mind. It's called the Slow AF Run Club: The Ultimate Guide for Anyone Who Wants to Run.

Yes, I know there are a few of you who don't like that colloquialism, but that's the book's title. It's written by someone who knows what it feels like to be told he really wasn't the type to run, given his size, he's 300 plus pounds. In his book, Slow AF founder and past NYC Marathon participant Martinus Evans covers buying your first pair of running shoes, setting goals, establishing running as a habit, and even marathon training.

When I spoke with him, I began our conversation by asking Martinus to brag a little, asking him how many marathons he completed.

Martinus Evans: I've ran eight of them in my 300-pound body.

Alison Stewart: How many races do you think?

Martinus Evans: I stopped counting over 100.

Alison Stewart: My goodness. When you first started running, did you think you would become a marathoner?

Martinus Evans: No.

[laughter]

Martinus Evans: I didn't run, and I even think the way I even got started running is completely different from what everybody else in their complete journey when it comes to running.

Alison Stewart: How did you get started?

Martinus Evans: 10 years ago, I found myself in a doctor's office. I was on my feet working 8 to 10 hours a day, wearing these hard-bottomed dress shoes, selling suits, and I started to develop some hip issues. I went to go see a doctor, and as I'm sitting in this doctor's office telling him all the things that's going on. Hey, doc, this hip hurts. I'm on my feet. I used to be a football player. What's going on?

He looked at me and said, "Mr. Evans, I know why you're in pain." Okay. I'm like, why? You haven't touched me? You haven't put a stethoscope on me. You ain't did none of that. He was like, "You're fat. Not only you're fat, you need to lose weight or you're going to die." Out of frustration, we continued to have this conversation. He was like, "You need to start walking on the track, and all this other stuff."

Out of frustration, I said, skip all that. I'm going to run a marathon. He laughs at me and tells me, that's the most dumbest thing he has heard in all his years of practice in medicine.

Alison Stewart: I do not like this person. I just want to say that up upfront. I do not like this person and the way he handled you. You were doing it a little bit at the beginning to-- I'll show you. I'll show somebody.

Martinus Evans: Yes, spite.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] You just went right for the S-word, spite. You're very clear that you don't have to do this to lose weight. This book isn't about running to lose weight. How have you found-- what happens when you remove weight loss from the discussion around running?

Martinus Evans: Oh man, the grass is greener, the birds chirp louder, and you're able to really enjoy running and enjoy movement just for the sake of movement. I have a quote that says, the celebration is in the application. Once you take weight loss or the numbers out of this, you can celebrate the fact that you put on your shoes and got out there and did something, anything and that's okay.

Alison Stewart: What are some of the emotional benefits of running?

Martinus Evans: There are so many things I can say about running. I would say my favorite thing is, it's generally accepted not to hit people. Pounding the pavement is probably my first go-to when it comes to dealing with somebody who has not nice things to say to me.

Alison Stewart: As a way to deal with your frustrations--

Martinus Evans: Yes, to deal with your frustrations, it's great for mental health, and I would say overall, it just makes me feel grounded. The fact that I'm out in nature and I'm listening to the music that my body makes. The sound of your feet, the way you're breathing, your heart rate pounding. All of that is music to my ears.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Vincent from [unintelligible 00:04:09], who is actually running right now. Hi, Vincent?

Vincent: Hi, how are you?

Martinus Evans: What's up, Vincent?

Vincent: Yes, I'm on the-- Thanks so much. I really appreciate the segment. It's been part of my life since I quit the football team in 9th grade and realized I was destined for a lonelier sport. I am now 36, and I find that I get slower every year, and it is a little dispiriting. Sometimes to the point where I ask myself, what's the point? I've still managed to get back out there and run pretty hefty distances, but significantly slower. Just curious of your take on that.

Alison Stewart: On the aging body.

Martinus Evans: Absolutely.

Alison Stewart: On becoming a different kind of runner.

Martinus Evans: Listen here. Your body is meant to change, and it's okay that you get slower. The fact that you're not a professional athlete is great because you're still out there. The beautiful part of all of this is that you don't have to compare yourself to your previous numbers. I would like to tell him that comparison is the thief of joy, and we want joy in your life. Continue to run and continue not to look at those numbers.

When was the last time you went running without looking at your watch or even having your cell phone with you? Try that a few times and really enjoy, like I said earlier, the music that your body makes.

Alison Stewart: John is calling in from Virginia. Hi, John. Thanks for calling All Of It. You're on with Martinus Evans.

John: Hi. Good afternoon. How are you guys doing?

Alison Stewart: Doing well.

Martinus Evans: Doing well, John.

John: I've got a question regarding runner's high. My wife's been running for almost 20 years, and I don't understand it. I can't go more than half a mile without being out of breath. How does that feel? How is it different from anything else?

Martinus Evans: Oh, man. Runner's high is amazing. It's the elation that you have. The sense of nothing. You have no other worry in your head and in your mind, and just running just seems to be effortless. One of the things I would recommend, John, is slow down. Maybe you're running too fast and that's why you Peter out a little bit, or the other thing is add intervals.

It's okay to add a run-walk interval inside of that, and that way, you're able to get out there for a little bit longer and not feel as tired, and maybe you too will fill that runner's high.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Liz from Westchester. Hi, Liz. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Liz: Thank. Yes, hi. Martinus, I burst out laughing when I heard the title of your book. I was like, this book is long overdue. I am definitely one of your Slow AF runners. I just want to ask you, what else are you planning to do? Are you going to get a group together because I definitely would love to join a running group of fellow Slow AF runners, and how soon can we get your book as well?

Martinus Evans: Absolutely. Couple things. Yes. Slow AF Run Club started off as a virtual community. You can find more about that in your favorite app store, so iOS and Android. Download the Slow AF Run Club app, or find us @slowafrunclub.com. Yes, one of the things that I'm also in the process of doing right now as we speak is launching a non-profit arm to the Slow AF Run Club. With this non-profit arm, once we get it up and running, we will be having in-person chapters.

Our overall goal is to get one million people to start running in the body they have right now.

Alison Stewart: My guest is Martinus Evans. The name of the book is Slow AF Run Club: The Ultimate Guide for Anyone Who Wants to Run. The name is, it makes you laugh a little bit. It makes you smile. It's going to make some people mad because of the-- but that's all right. How did your name come about?

Martinus Evans: I was running New York City Marathon, and for everybody who has run New York City, there's a bridge called the Queensboro Bridge. That bridge is a beast. Is a beast of a bridge. It's quiet, there's no crowds. I got off this bridge, and running on 1st Ave, I see this guy on my left-hand side and he was pointing at me. He was saying something, but I didn't understand what he was saying. I run closer to him, and I take my headphones out. He's like, "You're slow AF buddy."

I was like, what? He's like, "You're slow. Go home." I get in an argument with this guy, and I'm like, no, you go home. You're drunk. I'm running the race. I've trained. You go home. When I finished that race, because I did finish that race, I vowed that I would wear slow AF across my chest just as Superman had that S across his chest as a badge of honor. To let people know that I've ran races where they've ran out of water, where they took up signs, where they-- porta-potties were messed up, and I still finished these races in spite of all of that stuff. That's what Slow AF and Run Club means to me.

Alison Stewart: Why do you think people are frightened of being slow?

Martinus Evans: The competition of it. I think running is the only sport where we are on the same course as the professional runners. You could run New York City and run behind Des Linden. I think for a lot of people, they get that all up in their head, and they're like, "Oh, well Des is out here. I need to do that." That's not necessarily the case. What I found out recently is that most road races are permitted as a parade.

We're all participating in a running parade. Last time I checked, I didn't see Santa Claus try to beat out Mickey Mouse in the parade. Why is it the same thing when it comes to these road races? The thing I always tell people is that if you're not a professional runner, and your life does not depend on you getting first, second, or third place, you are participating in a running parade where you've already paid to get a participation matter at the end.

Alison Stewart: Before we go any further, your logo is that happiest little tortoise with some paisley going on. Just love it. Just wanted people to have that visual. Bob from Brooklyn is calling in. Hi, Bob.

Bob: Hi. How are you?

Alison Stewart: Great.

Bob: Well, I have an irony of running for me. Always been jockish in my younger years, and I've always been among the faster and quicker people against whom I was competing, but never liked running very much until I had one unexpected, perfect moment of running. It was summer. It was late. I had to walk the dog and I wanted to get in and out before a huge thunderstorm started.

Well, I didn't quite make it. I'm coming home. There are these huge silver-dollar size raindrops that start. I'm a block away and I look down at the dog and I realize I'm not going to make it because the dog is older. I dropped the leash and I looked at the dog and said, you're on your own. I took off running and the dog is running behind me. I can hear the chain flapping in the wind behind me and hitting the sidewalk. That sound is getting lighter and smaller. I realized I'm not running anymore. I'm floating.

Alison Stewart: This is poetic.

Bob: I was on just the toes touching the ground and the heels were wrapping up behind me and kicking myself in the backside as I'm going. It was effortless and it was joyful.

Martinus Evans: That's what I'm talking about, Bob.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for calling in. We went on a journey with Bob.

Martinus Evans: We did.

Alison Stewart: We definitely went on a journey. What's your take on motivation? Some people think you need to have goals versus having motivations. Where do you stand?

Martinus Evans: I stand with goals. You actually need a trifecta. You need values, you need goals, and you need habits. Values is the unattainable thing. A good mother, that's a value. There's not one thing that you can do to be a good mother. When you're onto the ancestors, somebody can say, "Alison was a good mother." Same thing with running. Then he need goals. What are the things you're going to do? Then what are the habits that's going to help you along to make sure that you get to your goals?

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Brandon from Newark. Hi, Brandon. Thank you so much for calling in.

Brandon: Hey, how are you?

Martinus Evans: What's up, Brandon?

Brandon: Hey, what's going on? Just wanted to call and say as a Slow AF runner, how much I appreciate the work that you're doing and the program. I've ran my entire life. I've always been the slowest or one of the slowest. My mile times aren't great, but I found a lot of joy in running. I'm a new father. With the birth of my son, I recently found out that sickle cell trait runs in my family.

I have it. My son has it. It contributes to that windedness that we feel. I've always still ran regularly but never really found a space or a group that really embraces those of us who might not be running at the same pace as professional runners or those who have a lot of aerobic ability. Just wanted to say how much I appreciated this program, the work that you're doing, and can't wait to see Slow AF branch into groups that I could join.

Martinus Evans: Thank you, Brandon.

Alison Stewart: Brandon, thank you so much for calling in. Let's say we've got people excited. They're thinking they want to start, what's step one?

Martinus Evans: Step one by my book. No. Step one--

Alison Stewart: That's okay.

Martinus Evans: Step one, if you want to start running, you don't know where to begin, go outside and run for 15 seconds and then walk for a minute. At that 15 seconds you can gauge, whoa, that was a lot and that's a lot. Let's take it back. Let's walk for a little bit longer. If you're like, yo, I can definitely do more. Do 30 seconds. Run for 30 seconds, walk for a minute, repeat for 30 minutes. Do that for three times a week and then add on a little bit more time, maybe 10 to 15 seconds to that run every week or so.

Alison Stewart: My guess is Martinus Evans, the name of the book is Slow AF Run Club: The Ultimate Guide for Anyone Who Wants to Run. Two-part question. Let's say you're somebody who's bigger-bodied. Let's say you're a person of color in a predominantly white neighborhood. Let's say you are thinking, I don't want to deal with people saying stuff to me while I'm out running. I don't really want to deal with the comments.

What advice would you give to someone who does have some fear or is a sensitive person? People can be really insensitive and bad.

Martinus Evans: People can be really insensitive and bad. The first thing is that somebody else's opinion of you is none of your business. If it don't apply, let it fly. The second thing is delusional self-belief. Now, this is the notion that you believe in yourself so much that everyone else around you think you're delusional. That's okay because you want to make sure that you will your way to your goals. Those are two things that I got.

Alison Stewart: What about the inner critic, the person who is booing you from inside?

Martinus Evans: The inner critic, this is my favorite part. I have an inner critic as well. His name is Otis. One of the things we all should do is to give our inner critic a persona, a life story, a backstory. My inner critic, his name is Otis, he's a drunk uncle that says just all types of random things. I remember growing up and having a drunk uncle and being like, go sit in that corner, uncle.

He'dd be like, "You know what, nephew? You're right." The same thing with that inner critic. If you give it a persona, give it a voice. Otis has this raspy old voice. Say those things that person would say to you and you'll see how ridiculous some of those things are.

Alison Stewart: Robin is calling in from West Harlem. Hey, Robin. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Robin: Thank you. Listen, I was a runner for years and I've stopped because of some hip issues and whatnot. I really miss it. Then I was thinking, you're a little old now. This is something for young people. I'm listening to you and I'm like, F that, doing it is for young people. It's for any people. I used to be very competitive. Then I'm like, well, I'm going to be so much slower per mile. So what?

I want to thank you for giving me inspiration to get myself out the door. I love the 15 seconds on and off and then 30 seconds on and off just to reacquaint myself and find out, okay, what does the hip let me do? It's going to let me do something. I'm going to learn what it's going to let me do. You're just totally inspiring me so thank you.

Martinus Evans: Thank you. Running is all about exploration of your body. Definitely explore, see what is out there. My message is all about empowering people to really tune back in with their bodies.

Alison Stewart: What are common missteps or mistakes that people can make? They don't mean to make them, but they make them ahen it can sometimes damper their enthusiasm.

Martinus Evans: Terrible twos. Most new runners, or even re-beginners, they do too much too soon, too fast. They run too fast. Their mileage is too much, or they do both of them too soon before their bodies can actually acclimate to the pounding of the road. That's the first trip to injury time.

Alison Stewart: Let's talk to Steven from Airmont. Hey, Steven. Thanks for calling All Of It.

Steven: Do you listen to music when you are running? Because I cannot.

Alison Stewart: Interesting.

Steven: For two reasons. First of all, getting in touch with the whole rhythm of my everything. The music, it's too distracting. I learned this years ago. Plus I tend to-- the things in my ears and the sweat were not compatible.

Alison Stewart: [laughs] That's hilarious. How do you feel? Where do you come down on music?

Martinus Evans: I'm all over the place. I listen to music. Sometimes I listen to audiobooks. I listen to podcasts or sometimes I just ride naked. Meaning, no watch, no EarPods, no nothing.

Alison Stewart: When you first started, how were you feeling, those very first runs you did?

Martinus Evans: I almost said a bad word.

[laughter]

Martinus Evans: Because that's how I felt. We got a few seconds to tell you my first run?

Alison Stewart: Yes, please.

Martinus Evans: My first run, I stepped on this treadmill, and I was incompletely sandwiched between two gazelles. One guy was going 10. The other guy was going nine. I thought to myself, okay, these guys are going to speed. I can at least go seven. When I got on the treadmill, my body flashed before my eyes and I fell off the treadmill. The sound my body made when it hit that ground was deafening. You can laugh. It's okay.

Alison Stewart: I'm not laughing. I'm like, oh. I was feeling for you more than laughing.

Martinus Evans: I hit the ground. These gazelles stop and look at me. I made this loud thud in the fitness center. I'm mortified and I grab everything and I get out the door. I looked back at the treadmill and it was 15 seconds that I was on the treadmill.

Alison Stewart: Thank you for sharing that. Oh, my. I'm sorry. I just feel so bad in that moment. Here's to somebody who texted us relevant to the Slow AF Run Club segment. I've been a runner for 10 years, fairly serious. I'm female. Running comes up occasionally in conversation. Every once in a while someone will question me and then say vaguely, constantly, oh, you jog.

Most often, these people are male. This happened when I was in the middle of marathon training. I looked up the difference between running and jogging and most sources agree it was jogging was slower than a 10-minute mile. This happens to be right between the average speed for men versus women. Very interesting.

Martinus Evans: Very interesting. However, Marian Webster says the definition of run is to move faster than a walk.

Alison Stewart: Well, there you go. Boom, boom for both of you. We're going to run out of time in a minute, but I do love that you not only told us about Otis and negative talk, you also say that there's a Chase Monster out there.

Martinus Evans: Yes.

Alison Stewart: What are some necessary defenses against the Chase Monster? I think we can all figure out what that's about.

Martinus Evans: Yes, cotton is your worst enemy when it comes to exercise. Leave that stuff at home. Don't wear it unless you really want to see the Chase Monster. This last thing, body glide or lubes or things of that sort that you can lube up on your bodies, on your bits and parts that rub a lot, will also help prevent the Chase Monster as well.

Alison Stewart: If somebody's inspired, how can they get involved with you with Slow AF? Follow you on Instagram? What's the best way to get engaged?

Martinus Evans: Absolutely. You can follow me on Instagram and Facebook at 300 Pounds and Running. That's 300, spell out pounds and running. If you want to know more about the Slow AF Run Club, you can go to slowafrunclub.com or download the app on iOS and Android at Slow AF Run Club.

Alison Stewart: I know you've been doing quite a bit of press, people are really into this as you can see our callers were totally digging this segment. Is there something that you haven't gotten to say about this that you really want to say or you think is important that just maybe people haven't asked you or it's come up as you're doing press?

Martinus Evans: I think the larger message is that people are always like, "Well, if you're not trying to lose weight, aren't you promoting obesity?" My answer to this thing is that I'm not promoting obesity, I'm promoting that everybody becomes physically active in the body that they have right now and they all should love themselves. That cannot be packaged in a pill or a powder.

Alison Stewart: That was part of my conversation with Slow AF Club founder, Martinus Evans. His book is called Slow AF Run Club: The Ultimate Guide for Anyone Who Wants to Run. Martinus will be in attendance at the NYC Marathon Expo all weekend long. That is All Of It. All Of It is produced by Andrea Duncan-Mao, Kate Hinds, Jordan Lauf, Simon Close, Zach Gottehrer-Cohen, L. Malik Anderson, and Luke Green.

Megan Ryan is the head of Live Radio. Our engineers are Juliana Fonda and Jason Isaac. Our intern is Kim [unintelligible 00:23:10] Peterson. [unintelligible 00:23:11] Jackson does our music. I'm Alison Stewart. I appreciate you listening and I appreciate you. I will meet you back here next time.

 

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