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Announcer: Listener supported, WNYC studios.

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Kerry Nolan: It's All Of It on WNYC. I'm Kerry Nolan, filling in for Alison Stewart. Well, let's start this segment with some music.

[MUSIC - Adeva: Respect]

[lyrics]

Got to have a little bit,

Just a little bit.

I need a little bit of respect.

Got to have a little,

Just a little bit.

I need a little bit of respect.

Kerry Nolan: The song you're listening to is Patterson New Jersey Singer, Adeva's Respect, a 1989 reworking of the Otis Redding classic. We're continuing to show some love to New Jersey today with a, I don't know, a little Valentine to New Jersey's music scene with a conversation about a new podcast that reflects on the history and evolution of New Jersey's house scene. It's called Black House Black Joy. Let's listen to a little bit of the trailer.

Speaker 1: House music is a cultural force that traveled from underground clubs to influence the biggest acts in pop and its impact is still felt today, but did you know that Jersey is a big part of the house music story?

Kerry Nolan: For those of you who didn't know, the podcast revisits the origin of what is now called Soulful House, taking listeners back to the legendary Club Zanzibar in Newark to the thriving festival culture throughout the state today. We also hear from DJs, MCs, activists, and dancers who share their stories of the scene. It's called Black House Black Joy, and it's in collaboration with WBGO and Newark Public Radio's podcast division. You can find episodes online at wbgo.org, via Apple Podcast, Spotify, or Google Podcasts. Black House Black Joy's host Jamara Wakefield joins us today. She's also WBGO's Digital Content Manager. That's a lot.

[laughter]

Jamara Wakefield: Thank you so much for having me.

Kerry Nolan: Oh, it's our pleasure. Jamara, what was your first exposure to the house music scene?

Jamara Wakefield: Oh my goodness. My first exposure in Jersey was when I first moved here, I was teaching in Patterson and really, was doing a lot of soul searching, like, "What am I doing here? I'm a writist, I'm an artist, I'm a creator. What do I want to do?" Someone said, "Hey, you want to come to this thing?" We went to this party and the first party was packed. We couldn't get in, so we went to another one. This party was so unique, Kerry, because it was a dry party, meaning no alcohol, it was just people dancing all night.

Kerry Nolan: Wow.

Jamara Wakefield: It was the first time me as a Newark resident where I said, "I feel at home." I certainly have had experience with house music and other places but I felt at home on the dance floor.

Kerry Nolan: That's an amazing inspiration that you went back and grabbed onto that first impression to create this podcast.

Jamara Wakefield: Yes. I'm in love with telling Black stories and music stories and really doing community-based stories which is exactly what this is. The podcast is actually based on a film project that we started in 2019. I've been collecting stories and talking to people and really just falling in love with the history.

Kerry Nolan: How did you decide which topics you wanted to cover in the podcast?

Jamara Wakefield: Well, I have a very organic way of working and so it's really just talking to people over and over again, and then mapping out the themes. I have a huge board when Club Zanzibar comes up, when Military Park comes up, when people are talking about Club 88 and Club America and different things going on in New Jersey's history, it just made sense. You really have to do deep listening to communities to do this work.

Kerry Nolan: How would you describe some of the stylistic elements that, let's say, distinguished New Jersey's house scene from other places like Chicago or Detroit, or even London?

Jamara Wakefield: Sure. House music is all about the love, right? It's really about community and coming together and finding yourself on the dance floor and being free with others. What makes New Jersey unique is really this collision of classic R&B and soul, this collision of gospel music and vocals, and then mixing that with electronic music and deep African-American roots in terms of call and response and how we perform music in the public space.

Kerry Nolan: There's so many, I don't know, what's the word I'm looking for, I guess, influences. You mentioned classic R&B, soul, gospel, electronic, that's quite a soup that could have been really messy if it weren't put together. The podcast, Black House Black Joy features the voices of a lot of creative people who've been part of that house community for a long time. You've got Soulful House Nation founder, DJ Dan Dan, Kym Mazelle, known as the First Lady of House music. People like Ricky Tucker, Craig Seymour, they've been on this show prior. What factored into your decision on who you're going to talk to for this?

Jamara Wakefield: I'm really interested in talking to people who see, who understand lineage and history. They understand that their music tastes in the present moment come from their parents and grandparents and the places they've come from. They also recognize that music grows and evolves over time. I really was just interested in people who said, "Look, I get the bigger picture of this music and why it's important to not only Black culture but American culture."

Kerry Nolan: In an announcement for the podcast, you said that Newark has a long history of being an incubator for music that has changed the world. Can you give me an example?

Jamara Wakefield: Sure. We have Crystal Waters, who's from Jersey. We have Kenny Bobien, Kerri Chandler. We have Jomanda who came out of Jersey, Blaze [unintelligible 00:06:34]Blas Elias , and what's really interesting, we also have folks like DJ Beloved and DJ Jihad Muhammad and they really, because Jersey's their home, they're able to play. When you're creative, playing is so important. Trying out new things, testing new material, bringing in new music. Because Newark and now New Jersey, the broader New Jersey festival culture has such a consistent community that shows up, they're able to be their full creative artist self and so that makes it the incubator.

Kerry Nolan: It's interesting to me to be able to watch and listen to a DJ at work mixing that magic. Is there anyone who particularly rises to the top or--

Jamara Wakefield: Oh my goodness, are you going to get me in trouble? [laughs]

Kerry Nolan: Give me 10 or 12 names, just [unintelligible 00:07:27].

Jamara Wakefield: Yes. Certainly, the ones I mentioned, DJ Beloved. I love Naeem Johnson, he's on the scene in Jersey. If you can ever hear him play, do that. Jihad Muhammad, DJ Milly Mills who shows up in the podcast and the film, and she's actually performing this week at Newark Museum that, if you asked me for suggestions, I was going to say [unintelligible 00:07:53].

Kerry Nolan: Bring them on.

Jamara Wakefield: Yes. Tonight is Wednesday so there's house music in Military Park. You can bring your chairs and sit out there and have a good time.

Kerry Nolan: Oh, fun.

Jamara Wakefield: This week, we also have Pride in the Garden at the Newark Museum, which is super cute. In the back, they have a cute little garden and it's intimate and you can dance. Then this weekend, we have the Orange Park Music Festival in Orange Park, so.

Kerry Nolan: In one episode of Black House Black Joy, producer Shayna Wakefield sits down with Dynelle Rhodes, one-half of the current iteration of the Weather Girls and daughter of the late Izora Armstead. She's an original member of the group, which was formed in San Francisco. Let's listen to a clip if we could. This is Dynelle Rhodes talking about performing, Still, It's RainingMen, to this day.

Dynelle Rhodes: Everywhere we go, it's, wait a minute, people request that song. If there's no disco in this world that we can go to and they don't request It's Raining Men. I think I'm blessed my mother gave me this gift. She passed it on to me and I'm carrying it on and sharing it with the world. Still, to this day, It's Still Raining Men.

[MUSIC - Dynelle Rhodes: It's Still Raining Men]

[lyrics]

Barometer's getting low

According to all sources

The street's the place to go

Because tonight for the first time (First time)

Just about half-past ten (Half-past ten)

For the first time in history

It's going to start raining men (Start raining men)

Kerry Nolan: I have to confess that our entire control room was dancing to that.

[laughter]

Jamara Wakefield: That's so good.

Kerry Nolan: We're talking to Jamara Wakefield, who is the host of the new podcast, Black House Black Joy. She's also the digital content manager at WBGO in Newark. The Weather Girls sang disco and soul music. Why was it important to acknowledge them in a podcast about house?

Jamara Wakefield: Sure. The song is the song, right? [laughs]

Kerry Nolan: Yes, it is.

Jamara Wakefield: Everybody knows it. Well, what I found that's really interesting about this project and doing documentary work, which is what this is, is that if you reach out to people, they're really interested in telling these stories. So many people feel unheard and unsung. Of course, the song has hit the charts, but how many people know the stories about her and her mom being on tour together and the stories of her meeting Sylvester? These intimate personal connections is what this podcast is about as well as the film.

Kerry Nolan: Now, a lot of people have heard the story of how House music rose from the ashes of a disco in a nightclub called The Warehouse in the '80s. How did house music travel to New Jersey in the first place?

Jamara Wakefield: They should definitely check out the second episode of the podcast-

Kerry Nolan: Excellent.

Jamara Wakefield: -where we walked through the history of Soulful House and how it arrived in Jersey. The short part of it is that there were some very specific spaces where people and Black people, queer people would gather. We had Zanzibar, Peppermint Lounge, Club 88, Club America, and lots of other places, dozens of them. It's really just taking us back to a time of community and collectivity and I think people are excited about it because thinking about the pandemic and how isolated we've been, we're all trying to remember how can we get back to that?

Kerry Nolan: In the first episode of the podcast, Soulful House Nation founder DJ Dan Dan makes a key distinction between Soulful House music and other variations. Why was it important to the House community for these distinctions to be made?

Jamara Wakefield: I think it's the difference between having mac and cheese from South Carolina versus mac and cheese from New Orleans versus mac and cheese or whatever from New England. Every region has its claim to fame-

Kerry Nolan: True.

Jamara Wakefield: -in terms of like, "This is what we do really well." I think Jersey's really proud of that distinction of Soulful House.

Kerry Nolan: Can you give me a thumbnail of maybe a couple of other variations of house?

Jamara Wakefield: Yes. There's garage, there's techno, which people, I think, debate whether it's house or isn't house. You also see this new rise of house music and electronic music through Beyoncé and Drake and other folks who are remixing it.

Kerry Nolan: Let's listen to another clip. This is Dj Dan Dan talking about some of the key figures of house music and how the genre evolved.

Dj Dan Dan: What happened as the Frankie Knuckles of the world were playing, then also, another really key figure was Larry Levan that was from the Garage, which many people have heard of. He was one of the originators of this style of music. Also, too, back in those days, you also had Tony Humphreys, who is still around today. Unfortunately, Larry Levan also passed, and also then a little bit later on, you have gentleman like Timmy Regisford who is still around and still making music and that kind of stuff.

Now, fast forward a little bit, they decide that there's music that's going to be played and they want to play it all over, but it never really, really, really breaks in the United States like it could have in other places. It broke in other cities across the pond, really, in Europe, it really started to break really big, and we just never got the love here in the United States.

Kerry Nolan: Jamara Wakefield, what happens to the soulful House music scene in the US after the '80s and '90s?

Jamara Wakefield: Well, oh, we don't have enough time for that, but I think a lot of things happened. The '80s and '90s, we certainly have the introduction of rap and hip hop. The world is changing. Music is always a reflection of the times that it's born out of. The times changed, our economic decisions changed. Clubs started shutting down. Maybe there weren't enough places to go, to sustain these things so we have the shift, but the really interesting about house is that the communities are self-sustained. Even if Club Zanzibar closes down, or Club 88 closes down, people find their own clubs, their own spaces, they create festivals, and they make space for themselves for joy.

Kerry Nolan: Let's talk, we have just about 30 seconds, how have some of the DJs and MCs within the scene thought about the future of the house community?

Jamara Wakefield: We have some of the youngest DJs right now in Jersey and I'll post those on social media for folks to find out. They're 15-year-olds, 16-year-olds, 17-year-olds who are on the scene and they're getting mentored, and that is the right thing to do.

Kerry Nolan: Oh, that is fantastic. What's the website address?

Jamara Wakefield: Blackhouseblackjoy.com.

Kerry Nolan: All right, thank you so much, Jamara Wakefield.

Jamara Wakefield: Thank you.

Kerry Nolan: It's been such a pleasure to have you. The podcast is Black House Black Joy, and it's from WBGO. You can get it at most of the places where you get your podcasts normally. We're going to go out on a song. This is Michael Watford's, 1994, So Into You.

[MUSIC - Michael Watford: So Into You]

Kerry Nolan: Thank you so much to everybody who listened and called in and texted us today. This has been great. We'll do it one more time tomorrow. I'm Kerry Nolan in for Alison Stewart. This is All Of It on WNYC.

[music]

 

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