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It is a very great pleasure to introduce. O.P.C. and Pulitzer Prize winning team Hurst task force William Randolph Hearst Jr and Bob Carter nine neither of whom need every penny of production as our fellow members Mr. Thank you thank you. Frank isn't here as you can see he's got the gout. It's. It's something that he nurses back and forth. When before he got to be an executive in our company just used to be called the soft what but. Now that he found out it was rather a rich man's Does he call the guy out now but it was roughly the same as to do with a visit to someplace like that I have a feeling anyway we really miss him we. Probably do more because. I think he's been writing some very. Bright stuff and brilliant stuff in the original stuff about Viet Nam and and while we. Travelled together was and we and think pretty much alike why I would have preferred And I think you probably would have to have heard Frank talk for myself how we're going to try and trap this up this point is if we can't go speak the same time we can but it doesn't come of worth a damn and and and we often do this from a kind of affect but this sort of a thing is best for us to be the alternate one listen to the other so I thought I'd break it in a little bit by reviewing your god just sort of telling you a little about how we got on this task force picture vice it was it was from the first visit up to Russia and when they said that I could go they told they've sent that I could go and he came and told me at the Gridiron after a few snots After dinner I thought things had gone too far you know I thought maybe it's just a lot this evening that he's talking about and he said no this Russian says you can go things have changed up there since Stalin and this other guy would you can go up there and I thought well that I surely ain't gone by myself by a damn sight and so I said well so I thought of Joe Schmidt who was overtaken by Smith who was over in Europe and Franklin if we'd been in the water again I thought maybe the feel that we would not get so on our backs on the mat at the same moment and but we figured to have a pretty tough time with them so we we said that with three of us will go they first said well we know kings very Smith and only two maybe just their way of doing things as most of us know and I said no that's our way of doing things and I said All right so ever since then we've been traveling in threes. Joe got himself to be had a via necessary in the States and then when we joined up with U.P. in the U.P.I. he went down the journal and Bob and Frank and I have been traveling as a trio since then. And this time when Rogers joined Rogers joined us over there. We went over to do the usual thing not only because we like to travel it gets us out of our offices and out of town and it's good for us and it's on the cuff but. We do learn something and we hope we interpret something and we hope it's good for the papers that's the name of the game. We all about the same time began to realize that while this news was coming out of the Pacific are right it was confusing. I thought it was just me of course I was out of the match and sort of a little out of touch to get the papers the next day and the radio doesn't come to clear they're in the television and. And when I talk to the guys back east they said no that's happening here to The Times says one thing the drip says another in the morning it's great you're missing it and so I said well why don't we go out there myself and everybody said that's the ticket so we we went out we make a little preparation for these things sometimes not as much maybe as we go on we check in at the State Department and sort of lay on some names in in the in the. In the embassies and they kind of tip him off that we're come and give him a warning so that they can be out of town or not as a truth and they U.P.I. and the A.P. both sort of tip their guys off for the same reasons with the same results. And then we have some charms they are usually in steps and some of the country's most of the country but what Joe and Barack were saying about newspapers felt as if if it was only one group that we could see invariably in any country that I have a visit and now that's quite a few whether if it was the State Department or the local newspaper guys I turn to the newspaper guys every time. So there you should have your own guys up here I don't mean us I mean the more the merrier to get these first hand reports I should say now that we decide to do a sweep of the other shore of the Pacific I know that California Oregon Washington coast pretty well in Mexico. But the other side of the same ocean is less snow and less known to most Americans so we started at the top in Japan and went down to Taiwan and then into Hong Kong and the Philippines and Vietnam and down to Jakarta we could've called it from Japan to Jakarta that would have been a hell of a time didn't think of it and if you go any of those places you don't have to go to Jakarta I can tell you that don't bother Valley yes we didn't get there scenically Yes but politically. The guy what we're coming to him right now we wrote a series afterwards and if some of you are not familiar with that series just shows you don't we do like paper but. Maybe that's why yes because for the good guys read the paper. I'm going to we're going to I'm going to turn now the storytelling part over to Bob who not only writes better but talk better and then if half I have any disagreement or anything I'll kick him one of the table or he can do it and then we'll take questions or anything you want and I thought somebody's got to get some order to Atlanta. I too am sorry about the kind of sniping here. He has written but I think was the first. Level headed reasoning about the D.M. government his role in this war against a communist force. Today about he's got. His young going that in the United States. With gout was also on a Mars plan note. He was upset over not being able to be here and I said Well. Frank. I get along without you. Hurst will be disappointed. At all the cut down by fifty percent of the appreciative chuckles. And while he speaks of. Franken I. Think and I go on the road with a that we have a little act and Frank. Sits on one side of him and I sit on the other side of our leader here and. And we've come down with an interesting. Malady which is being studied leading medical societies and it's rare disease call of primitive palsy. We got off to a good start on this trip and we nearly started a war. Tween Japan and. The Republic of China. Not the People's Republic the Republic. In the course of our interview with the Cato. Premier Ikeda. We ask him a. If you see a chunk I checked leading up the good attack back on the mainland and succeeding in liberating the seven hundred million Red Chinese. And he said he'd never take that very seriously have taken that claim very seriously and I said understand that in the in your country many are the United States has a lot of a lot of talk along those lines but. You know for the birds or less so Bill left him on the question of the. What the I mean this is a just a lot of wishful thinking and all these claims and and cries of talk I checked and he smiled amiably and Marla's agreed so. We went over our notes with his press boys later sharp guys too and they changed tiny little things out of semantics. All he said he would wasn't worried about. China developing an atomic weapon he thought would take twenty five years from the know how to deliver it if they did develop it she thinks they would in the next year or so he was worried that there was one more atomic power on as your neighbor said Russia after all has. Tremendous power atomic power and they have all of our targets and they have their missiles positioned in position as I'm well there is a tiny change in our script as we read it over to these oppressed guys. They wanted said positioned not position against us or something but they went right past the press guys went right past the allusion to the inability of chunky Sheykh to get back so you. We made a black to our story in the U.P.I. picked it up made up the lead. I hit the front pages of junk I Sex newspapers in Taipei. They stone the Japanese embassy there in the in the in. The tank I Psec withdrew his ambassador. And Ikeda instructed his ambassador in Taipei to have no more social intercourse with the. Formosan Chinese crap their style of it I say. We got word from a male Keppen our editor in Washington said it looks like looks like a slant eyeball to slant eyeball concentration in the in the. Well out chunk I Psec couldn't wait to see us when we got there. So we went up to his place in the hills beautiful place by the way. And he came in he looks great seventy five years old. Good in tram and smiles all the time. And Adam was in good form. He said kind of a prime minister the guy I think is getting paid in the Dignitas don't you know. That delicate Wellesley and such a number. So Bill said. Not a bad following I don't think he probably meant it that way really she said then why just printed the and. We left there and the other. That seemed to be a contradiction there on on the Taiwan. On the one hand the place was loaded with military. The Nike's in place and good air force and U two operations. More troops. Has the highest incidence of troops versus civilians I believe of any country in the world training night and day for this. Invasion of the mainland. But no shipping to take in there and a constant build up of very shrewd by means a very shrewd Chinese businessman build up of that island itself schools hospitals new hotels going up office buildings and now exporting their industrial products and on the one hand they are fixing to go on the other hand they're certainly fixing to stay Junger didn't care to divulge when he was going to invade. Feared price would blab it or something yes but. I think he keeps putting it back a little. And every time a. Chinese dies on the mainland I'm afraid that one fewer person in the world. Knows about this old man's dreams and hopes of returning. I with my person was not surprised that in the Philippines and bills been there not a number of times and. Make it a call to run up and I'm Since returning. Seem like an honest Philippine president in the dish and I'm not so I sigh he's. Got a pretty good firm hold on the government there his party has places. Bombing they don't wish to to remain as simply the source of supplies for Japan's an enormous industrial giant. They want to get in the game themselves they want to get too down into Southeast Asia faster than the Japanese salesman are Japanese sales and are going to Southeast Asia lot faster than the average troops dead and capturing more territory by means of Peace Corps. And trade concessions in them and good shrewd Japanese business sense but the Philippines one in the act two and I thought we were there they signed a pact with Indonesia. Indonesia has about the same sort of economy but worse and one of our pals out there said the only thing that they can do a pact between the Philippines and Indonesia they can exchange Singer sewing machines. They both have plants. And I have a lawn I don't support the economy. Below later had dinner with some of the bright young Philippine business types and will want to say something about that later if I file any moment. Sukarno is a not but an interesting when. He came but must have been the first interview he'd given in the years. Very very colorful guy by far the most colorful person we met on a trip. Designed his own uniforms and. His own medals. He'd been busy that morning webbing up a new gold medal and. For attendance at the palace the now. He turns out in terms of mobs on and off like a speck it no question in our mind that. He permitted the British embassy to be burned the most brutal and shocking manner and the property of the British community destroyed he called it off at five in the afternoon presumably in the and the cops didn't come out the troops didn't come until midnight. He. Has a land that extends three thousand miles over three thousand islands which until he said he couldn't do it anymore spoke sixty eight major languages and nearly two hundred dialects and now he has imposed a single language on them and that seems to be working he has a hatred we hear so much in un here and so for the colonialism and where we have been free from British control for so long with has been that hatred has been bred out of us cept to our societies I belong to a head. Start had I. But there you see the burning deal of the anti colonial man a hatred of the Dutch hatred of the British hatred of all things colonial and this man's eyes burn like coals of blazing coals when he speaks of and shakes his voice rises and the very dramatic GUY Oh he says. When he graduated in one thousand twenty six he was one of eleven Indonesians permitted to have a college education and here by the Dutch He was one of eleven in the graduating class of that I should say and now he says they have one hundred eighty thousand one in one thousand at the end of the war the Dutch had only seven hundred fifty thousand Indonesians in grade school another fourteen million. And I asked him how could one how could a civilised nation like Holland. Suppress you people away. He said because he wanted coolies so all they wanted was coolies. We were to supply the coolies for their oil and rubber Some were consultant to pitch they could remember her name for some reason. They couldn't remember can ever Considine. Like the kind of names of a palace that Considine this. So I try to explain a word I said as an Irish name. So any funny when his ministers came and. He introduced his ministers to us that this is William Randolph Hearst and two hours. In the that. Great building as it was a little bit like that. I never realized how. Great he was a great his power has until that introduction by the way he sat languidly in the chair he's painting filled office and reached a lazy hand up to each minister as he went by like a schoolboy in it everything but because he's running to never in. And he never he never moved from his chair we were standing upright and attention it is said that he dances on all the parties of Indonesia belongs to none yet makes the keynote address at all political conventions and. Has a very good way of controlling the largest and best nipped party in Indonesia Communist Party which has somewhere between two million and two and a half million card carrying members they meet regularly They're strong they're well to do. Tough and he has a very good way of keeping him in line if there were an election tomorrow his foreign minister told us. There are elections tomorrow the communists would win. Everything so on and the prime minister smiled and said presents a kind of says oh be no election therefore. That's the way to run to run a country I think. When we get to the fella we came here to hear about him. We found. Some great ignorance about them. I think for example on the day before we saw him for what turned up to be his last interview. We had a session with Ambassador Lodge. And the embassy was quite frank. He said you'll find you'll find him a beaten defeated man he's old he's lost his grip on the situation here and he also revealed the same time that he had offered. New and not of No six months vacation and parents apparently at the expense of the American taxpayer to get him out of the way. You know well. We went to the palace to be alone palace to see this beaten and defeated man the town on the roughest toughest little guys have a sunny life jet black hair positive manner. Absolutely in command charge. Great determination to continue the war against the communists. Positive that was going well. He showed us that by the end of one nine hundred sixty five he no longer need American military aid. Because by that time his men being trained by our troops good troops would be able to handle the situation themselves I think the United States government is at least partly to blame for the murder of Geminis a brother. I think we established whether we intended to or not and I certainly tended to withstand just a climate and atmosphere in which a cool was certain events lead to take place to be born. We had we gave Haven asylum to two of the more unarmed Buddhist. Rabble rousers. Would not turn them over to an authority we recognised diplomatically and to the tune of a million a half a day and sixteen thousand five hundred troops on the one hand we had trusted all these men and all this day. On the other hand we wouldn't we wouldn't let him and his government handle two guys who were trying to unseat them the president's. Statements from Washington his press conference that there must be changes in personnel in the government. And past a large going to and trying to get rid of known his wife. Constant threats to withhold funds. All added up seems to me at least to be an invitation to. Defrock and unseat these people I'm sure of course that we didn't intend to have them killed but they were killed and the first statement of this assassin government which we are recognising the first statement turned out to be a massive lie the fact that these men about Catholics particularly him had committed suicide if D.M. committed suicide is the first guy in history who ever committed suicide by shooting himself thirty two times to the head and body. Now we now we have to look forward to a new deal out there I hope I hope it's good i hope it's as anti-communist as D.M.. I hope it pursues the war as in diligently as. His forces were pursuing it. And I hope it's as honest fiscally. When the mobs broke into D.M. as quarters and get along with him but resembled a boarding house suite Madame know who is living off the charity of a couple up in Beverly Hills we happen to know I hope the new new gang will give the American taxpayer. As honest account and as hard a try as the D.M. has grabbed it. And it'll. Thank you so much Bob. Are there any questions. But. The question is this Mr Considine new whether he approves of the United States supporting a fascist government namely the D.M. government and whether he approves of the killing of priests even if they're not Catholic when that's where people are killing priests Farnsworth. Finds a way to. Pledge us that. We support all sorts of governments you know that we've got a guy named stressor and parkway who. Has a fascist We have a fascist in Spain we also have some good air bases there. We are we too late we support them all. And apparently that's the only way to to make make do or make our way in this world unless we grab everybody by the scruff of the neck and said live like us. Unless we try to ram democracy down everybody's throat it would gag a lot of people. So we're going to continue to recognize fascist governments and totalitarian governments and governments by King Queen. And help them. Provided in the overall picture we're more or less fighting for the same same thing. More or less as for the priest. Dreadful shocking the the killing of the other Buddhist priest. Killing Buddhist priest. As well the. Burning self burning of the Buddhists. That's something that. No man would have any control over. And courage and they're all in heaven put it there believe in the time of their last breath. Think. It will. Be. Very very dicey any slavery in them in the Philippines. Well. About those people bringing all those drinks of I mean I was a party. You. Know I didn't see any slavery. We didn't get that. We didn't get that far out of the. Palace circles. No never. ROVE. Right. Right. Right. No. Question is the possibility of a rivalry among the generals have taken over. Both of them I think there will be without knowing the man it will be a. Further turmoil. A fight for a struggle to be number one. If there isn't to be the first time in the annals of anybody's military the been. Asking. Did you find any democratic government in Asia or in India or anywhere else and what will be the repercussions throughout Asia. Among our friends now that the Americans have been so implicated in the assassination of zero. Yes and no. I don't know whether the Japanese were nears or not it oddly enough that probably the nearest because we wrote a constitution and I think the. I think the same would go for the writing of the Constitution for the Philippines as you know their constitution patterned after all. I suppose they have more as more that Asiatic graft goes on over there but there's a good because on over here too I'm told and every so often gets credit. Because they happen. MANILA particularly the Philippines but. Understandably close to us and I think they're doing their very best director. And I think the Japanese are too for that matter. The rest of the places have their own versions of. Their own interpretations of it and I asked her what was the second half of that how these guys were how how how on our part will be construed Well again I guess differently in different places I don't know whether I don't suppose the president certainly not I couldn't believe that the president at any one of us or nor he would have would have had advance notice that that Jan was going to be assassinated slant like that maybe he saw him going to be handed over to us or just be exiled but it's the first instance I think of our really butting into that extend. All of this business of of ours of self-determination goes down the drain with this one act rather at least it's wide open to suspicion and up till now I think they may have thought a lot of things about us including that we were naive in this but they thought that we were pretty truthful about about our statements about our principle I'm fraid that this gives the lie to that it may I hope it's the exception but certainly we butted into this to the management of this country I don't think it's a good policy although there are some I guess who do they say we call it we're paying for the tune we're paying for the band we ought to be able to call it too much and. That's another argument you can spend a lot of time on both sides I imagine will have some effect I don't imagine in the trailer Dibley will be a good effect or. Book. Try to say remember Mr Meadows of finance as. We found this week because we have no way of looking into the treasury we found these people. Were apparently were not dipping their paws and the pill that we were republishing every day million I have dollars like you know not like a protest or I would die or anybody like the fact I'm kind of had a nasty setback their. First story type I took to the telegraph office and I reject that it had nothing to do with man it's news and I said I can't read your writing. So that type when you. Type on your typewriter is too small and I said what I mean is too small and so I can see up to that light isn't very good in the sending room thanks as we're sending you guys I know you know I have bucks a day buy a new bulb. All of it. What was the official American explanation for opposing the government but didn't mention it. Touch or we talked to cap. And. He eats indicated to us that he thought that the government was being run by the brother I knew and that the jam was not not a real leader anymore and that we as a government were dissatisfied the president and the administration would not be happy with that set up and it was they particularly that our government apparently wanted to get out when they said there should be a change personnel I don't believe there are any aspersions ever cast on me and on the integrity of the. Mental processes of Andy Card and this is I'm of the Jam I'm self all the way the thing we've got the War Army people have known the ones that are out of politics and most of them are there are technicians and I'm in town they're out in the field for the most part. They believe it's going pretty well and these these guys fight and they don't drop their weapons which is a big measure of morale of an army. And the numbers of lost weapons that's very low so that that part of the trial right and I wasn't any beef with that it was the it became a political match and I said why did you want to take from you wave your. Well you should. Do we ask them yes we ask them. Now we ask them about it and you get a lot of double talk and they say sure don't actually it and that it's almost like Meet the Press or anything else of the feller's adept at answering he can send graduate asked out and just start talking about something related and go on for quite a long time and then you forget what the question was then you know you're never going to get back so that in effect what he said was there wasn't any such thing and that there was no more secret police and then we here had with the F.B.I. a security. Group that there was that but then these fellows in the white uniforms in the street cleaners office they were they were the palace guard that's a recognized thing I mean there wasn't any doubt about their existence and no attempt to deny them and they hung around the building and they were the ones who put up the fight against the insurgents or against the army but he didn't hide any secret private army and he gets tap dancing. Flak I didn't hear your story. Well. Yes And he said our CIA was taking a partisan position in relation to some of the political little or no sale a funds was awarded the CIA funds were supporting one of the one of those organizations either the secret one or the palace guard but money was coming in a market of on money to go to that source I had to present cut that out was that was one of the things in the a program you can cut out the whole a program remember just cut out some items and I think that was one of them. Rolling Rock. And. Roll. No really we argued some but I don't say I'm right and they're wrong. In some instances they were they were pretty young by pretty near any. City desk standpoint I think they'd missed World War two Some of them and they'd missed the Korean War and this was is near is a God and this is no good walk to cover anywhere there's no front there's no back there's no capital to capture I mean you don't say on to the. Mosque Our anything it's on to the next rice paddy or something then you get shot in the behind from down below in these helicopters you don't know by whom you don't get mad at anybody. So they I think they're pretty frustrated actually and so they go back to the capital hotel and chin it all up among themselves and get identifying and and and. I think their own views were introduced quite often quite a lot more than more than face good sitting room which would stand for tell you the truth. This program is so fascinating I know it would run on indefinitely we have the custom of stopping at two and we're well beyond that I entertain another two questions Joe. Fellow if you were. Very serious. About the way you write military. Report from general feel that we were winning the war just before. We offered by the press you know. That the political problem was making victory. Military victory very difficult. We hear more and more. Wrong yet me. And I will. Try to justify the poll on the grounds that we were losing the war because of the situation. That was. Before we reconciled questionnaires we've heard conflicting reports that we are winning and losing this war losing it because of the internal political divisions will both please come an. Argument. I don't think we were losing the war at all it was the same guys that are fighting that are there now taken over they just fought in the Capitol for a few hours. And knocked off their President but from our own military standpoint our guys in the field back in the Honolulu and Admiral felts headquarters and right back up into into the Pentagon to Taylor's office and then they went out McNamara and Taylor went out and reported that to the president that they thought this thing was a slow painful process but that there wasn't any reason to call it off or to retreat on it or not to continue along the lines of along the same lines they did they figure that will take a couple of years but if this is the turnover job we're not we're not doing the training we're doing some flying of helicopters to transport troops for a given maneuvers for a given attack of some sort that's only because we haven't trained enough of their pilots yet I guess we don't trust equipment with them but in the long run it's a it's a training job and then and a gradual evacuation by a life but I. There's no reason to suppose. Except on the ground basis if people if you feel that the people out there work that it made any difference whether the German family or the new family or whatever they're called family whether they had any effect on the morale of the troops by that then the argument could be made that they'll fight better now because there isn't. Lack of ministration feel be a military government I guess I'll put up a. Civilian head of it but he'll be beholden to them or said they are not country but I think the fighting part of the determination to fight against communism was there and we were educating them as it were and guerrilla warfare we have our very best technicians out there all these various facets of fighting. I don't know how much you can look for any marked improvement and I don't know how I can tell you about the morale of the troops I don't speak Vietnamese and they didn't like. What you think was one of the change in the Gulf. War I think that they got convinced that the president got convinced that that was convinced became convention was sold the idea that this regime was so unpopular that it might go better the war might go better what now then you talk to the soldiers out there and they say the war's going on right leave the politics the hell out of it it's going on. So I did and that's what the report was back to the president by Taylor and I I believe he just didn't believe. Now that there's a political side to get the other presidential. How much that was thrown up the war effort I don't know I can't speculate whether they got into more rice paddies that day or night or blown up when they tried to land someplace yes or no this is a very slow process. And I don't think you're going to see dramatic change one way or the final question. The question though Ruth please. That's really one of the things that astonished us up there was there was so little talk about Red China no apparent fear that this colossus was going to fall on their necks. Beginning with the Cato saying of so what they got a problem. Why Rogers went on to India and found some they are naturally. Some tension and nervousness about China but. Japan dealing with them. And I think the others would like to Sukarno cut off his trade with the Singapore. And we ask kind of these guys and they said oh it's we can sell all of our rubber tomorrow to China. There was no no tension not nearly as much tension as that there is in this country it's like the guy and they said oh cafe in Paris not worried about the Germans. You know no Germans tell us. We now understand why the hearse Task Force one both the O.P.C. number one award and also the Pulitzer Prize certainly great. Cuts of. Beef before. For one thing I'd like to say that our membership. Membership campaign chairman just Gorgon will be our Wednesday guest a week from today reporting on his the tour he has just completed of the Chinese Russian front tier area and we believe that to see more topping Also the New York Times man in Moscow also will be with us downstairs at the front desk we have a lot of membership applications if you're not a member get some and if you are a member take several to bring new members and thank you for being with us.