Democratic Primary Forum: Dan Goldman and Brad Lander

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Brian Lehrer: It's The Brian Lehrer Show on WNYC. Good morning, everyone. Today, we begin a series of forums with candidates in competitive congressional primaries in New York. These are also of interest nationally, mostly because the New York Democratic primaries reflect tensions in the party and the American people as a whole, nationwide. We begin with a hotly contested primary between two prominent New York Democrats, Congressman Dan Goldman, the incumbent in the race, and former New York City Comptroller Brad Lander.

This is New York's 10th congressional district, which is more or less Manhattan, south of 14th Street and Brooklyn neighborhoods right across the Brooklyn and Williamsburg Bridges, including some or all of Brooklyn Heights, Carroll Gardens, Cobble Hill, Windsor Terrace, Sunset Park, Borough Park, Gowanus, and Park Slope. It's a very Democratic district. The winner of the primary will almost certainly win in November.

These two candidates agree on many things, but differences on Israel have been a big issue in the race and reflect the changing conversation about military aid and other forms of support that's taking place in the US as a whole and among American Jews. Both candidates are Jewish. The American Jewish Population Project estimates about a quarter of the electorate in the district is Jewish. The website censusreporter.org also estimates the district is about 50% white, 20% Asian, 20% Latino, and 6% Black.

Another emerging issue in the race is campaign finance, with Congressman Goldman, who is much wealthier now matching every dollar donated to his campaign with a dollar of his own. Brief bios, Dan Goldman was first elected to Congress in 2022 after serving as General Counsel for the House Democrats in the first Trump impeachment in 2019. Some of you may remember him on TV for that. Before that, he was an assistant US Attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Brad Lander served one four-year term as Comptroller ending in 2025, and was in city council for 12 years before that, including as a co-founder of the council's progressive [inaudible 00:02:17]. Mr. Lander, Mr. Goldman, thanks for engaging in this forum. Welcome back, both of you, to WNYC.

Dan Goldman: Great to be here, Brian. Glad we're finally doing a forum.

Brad Lander: Good morning, Brian. It's wonderful to be back on with you.

Brian Lehrer: Now, listeners, the format for this forum will be informal and conversational, not a formal debate. I'll post questions and try to moderate in good faith. Listeners, you'll be able to post some questions too by calling in or texting 212-433-WNYC, 212-433-9692. We do have some guidelines, so take note. First priority will go to undecided voters in the district. Again, first priority will go to undecided voters in the district. If you're undecided and plan to vote in this primary, we encourage you to call with a question, 212-433-9692.

For whoever calls or texts, we ask that you come with questions, not speeches or endorsements. The candidates can argue their positions for themselves. Our screeners will ask you to identify if you support one or the other or are undecided, and whether you're from in or out of the district. Whatever you are is okay. We just want to be transparent in who we're putting on. Undecided first priority, but anyone else too. 212-433-WNYC. Call or text, 212-433-9692.

Candidates, I'll call each of you Mr., not by your titles, as we do in these things. We'll have closing statements of up to one minute at the end. No opening statements. We toss the coin, as you know. Mr. Lander, you'll go last at the end. Mr. Goldman will get to go first right now. Here's my first question for you both, and we'll get to the hot button topic shortly. First, how would you each describe the quality of life challenges in your district right now? Affordability seems to be the number one issue nationally. How would you describe that for your district, and why you'd be the better candidate to address local quality of life by serving in Congress if you're elected? Mr. Goldman, want to take a minute or so on that to start out?

Dan Goldman: Yes, sure, Brian, and I'm glad that we're starting with that because I think this is the most critical issue in this race, not Israel and not campaign finance. Because when I go around the district, what I hear from the people that I represent is that they're struggling. They're struggling more and more and more because of Donald Trump's horrific policies that have yanked away SNAP benefits, health care, raised rents, raised the cost of gas. I am well-equipped and experienced in tackling these issues.

First, we've got to unrig the system. The billionaires are getting richer, and everybody else is left with crumbs. I'm going to do that with a pragmatic bill that will make billionaires pay their fair share, which is not happening right now. We also need to generate that revenue so that we can pass universal child care, so that we can put money into housing, like the low-income housing tax credit, which is something that I helped to expand last year in Congress.

Brian Lehrer: That's about a minute. Just say quickly, since I have a feeling Mr. Lander will agree with you on a lot of the premise that you just laid out. Why would you be better than him at this?

Dan Goldman: Well, Brian, I've actually been devoted to these issues of justice and civil rights for my entire career. I am the one who has stood up to Donald Trump, has held him accountable, and I will do that when we're going forward. It's not just the oversight and investigations, which I'm uniquely experienced to do and, with my seniority, will be in position to do it. We also have to take back our country. We have to take back our democracy. We have to unrig the system. I am the run with the skills, experience, and ability to do that, to get it done, and not to fold like my opponent.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, same question. I note he just seemed to accuse you of folding, but why would you be better for affordability or quality of life, or since he threw it in there, opposing the Trump administration?

Brad Lander: Thanks so much, Brian. I've been working alongside my neighbors to fight evictions and build affordable housing. For three decades at this point, in nonprofit and the City Council and in the comptroller's office, the biggest issue that's facing the 10th congressional district on the ground is housing affordability, the price of rent in Manhattan now $5,000 a month. People getting evicted don't believe their kids will be able to live here. That's what I've been working on for 30 years.

Yesterday, Mayor Mamdani, whose support I'm proud to have in this race, launched his housing plan, and he did it in Gowanus. We walked around the Gowanus neighborhood first, where we met tenants who we saved from evictions. We fought back when landlords tried to throw seniors and families out of our neighborhoods. We're looking at thousands of affordable units going up around the Gowanus Canal. I know how to protect tenants from eviction and get affordable housing built. I know how the federal programs work, too, and I'll be able to be an ally in making sure that happens.

We fought hard. The other big cost-of-living issue people are facing is health care. Democrats have to restore the health care subsidies that Donald Trump cut. When I was comptroller, I protected our retirees from being thrown off Medicare onto privatized HMOs. I brought participatory budgeting to New York City to get neighbors involved in the quality-of-life issues in their schools and parks. I believe the way we fight and beat Donald Trump is the way people in Minneapolis did, by neighbors showing up for each other. I put my body on the line alongside them. Trump started coming for our immigrant neighbors, and that's all. I'll keep fighting back.

Brian Lehrer: You both had about the same amount of time for that. I'm going to take our first caller now, David in Park Slope, who told our screener that he's undecided in this race. David, you're on WNYC. Hello.

David: Hello, Brian. Thank you for having me on. My question is for Congressman Goldman, which is that I am wondering why he did not support, vote for, or endorse Mayor Mamdani in the general election. If he thinks that that will inhibit his ability to implement the mayor's agenda in Washington or work with the mayor to make New York City more affordable. Thank you very much.

Brian Lehrer: Okay. Thank you for a specific question, Mr. Goldman.

Dan Goldman: Great. Thank you for the question. It's an important one. I made my position clear during the campaign, and as soon as the mayor won, I congratulated him. I have been working with him since that very day. We share a lot of the same assessment of the problems here and the same goals. Actually, Mayor Mamdani and I worked together when he was in the assembly on a pilot program for free bus fares. We've had conversations about his Office of Community Safety, which I think is a great idea because we need more mental health professionals in our criminal justice system. We represent the same people, and a successful mayor means a better future for all of New Yorkers, including my constituents.

I've been happy to have continued to work with him, meeting with him personally, and having numerous conversations with the deputy mayors who are dealing with the substantive issues on the ground. I look forward to continuing to work with him to improve the lives of all New Yorkers, including those who live in New York 10.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, obviously, you and Mayor Mamdani, or obvious to many of our listeners, maybe some may not know, cross-endorsed each other during the primary. Of course, you endorsed him over Andrew Cuomo and Curtis Sliwa in the general election, which Mr. Goldman acknowledges he does not. What does that difference say about how either of you might represent the district in Congress or work with the Mamdani administration, which is the question that the listener asked?

Brad Lander: I think it's significant that Representative Goldman, the Democratic congressman from the district, could not endorse the Democratic nominee for mayor, Zohran Mamdani, when he was running against Andrew Cuomo, a serial sexual harasser, in the general election. Then, more recently, this spring, he didn't support the mayor's efforts to tax the rich in Albany in order to pay for universal childcare.

I tried to be a team player. That's why I did that cross endorsement. It seemed to me I had laid out my vision, but I did not want Andrew Cuomo to be mayor. I thought people were excited by that vision of a city that everyone can afford and where everyone is welcome. We don't agree on every single thing, but I want the mayor to have an ally in Washington instead of an adversary in his own backyard.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Goldman, you want to keep going on that and talk about why you found Mamdani and Cuomo close enough to each other to stay neutral in that general election?

Dan Goldman: I think that's honestly in the past. I talked about it. I made my decision to stay completely out of the race, and I'm moving forward. I think that it's interesting to hear Brad talk about the tax. When he was running for mayor-- the city tax. When he was running for mayor, he actually opposed raising the city taxes, and now he is fully supportive of it. What I am focused on is unrigging the system with big structural, systemic change. That is, as a federal elected official, that's what I'm working on in Congress.

My Robin Hood Act will generate nearly $30 billion of revenue from taxing billionaires like Jeff Bezos, who pays a 1% federal income tax rate. He does that because he avoids paying tax by borrowing money against his stock. My bill would tax those loans and generate $30 billion of revenue per year, which could pay for universal child care nationwide with money left over. Just as one last thing, Brian, because I think this is important. It has support from the progressive members of the Democratic Caucus, including Ro Khanna, Rashida Tlaib, Jim McGovern. It's gotten positive feedback from Republicans. We're going to pass this bill in divided Congress when we take back the majority, and we're going to begin to unrig the system.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, I heard you saying false at one point during his response. Go ahead.

Brad Lander: Yes, I mean, it's just untrue. I never opposed tax on the rich in Albany. I've been fighting for it for decades. Again, Dan opposed it this spring. Look, he can't unrig the system because he's part of this. [crosstalk]

Brian Lehrer: One at a time. You get to keep going. Mr. Lander, go ahead.

Brad Lander: He can't unrig the system because he's part of this system. He takes money from Wall Street, from private equity, from crypto, from AIPAC. He was one of only eight Democrats to vote for the Expanding Access to Capital Act, which deregulates Wall Street and lets them make risky investments with people's retirement money. He voted against the majority of Democrats to deregulate crypto, allowing Donald Trump to enrich himself when he voted for the Genius and Clarity Acts. He gets a lot of crypto support.

As you noted, he's putting millions of his own inherited wealth into the race, even while he's supported by all these corporate interests and super PACs. I'm proud to be supported by Senator Bernie Sanders and Senator Elizabeth Warren, whose wealth taxes are the way to generate trillions of dollars to pay for the universal child care, the affordable housing, the Medicare for all that are really what New York 10 residents need.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Goldman, we can keep going on this. Go ahead.

Dan Goldman: Yes, thanks. I'm just reading here from a Bloomberg headline. New York City Comptroller Brad Lander backs away from income tax hike proposal. He had proposed raising city levy on top 1%, but then backed away from it and says the extra revenue isn't needed with pre-K funds secure. September 23rd, 2024. This gets to the broader issue here, Brian, which is that, unfortunately, my opponent hawks a very, very good game, but when the going gets tough, and he gets any pressure, he changes his tune. I will maintain my view. On some of the issues he talked about, he's just dead wrong.

The crypto legislation that was passed in Congress actually creates restrictions and regulations where none existed. It puts restrictions on Donald Trump, on the industry, it sets a regulatory framework, and it was supported, actually, by well over half of the Democratic caucus, including colleagues like Ro Khanna. I was actually the first prosecutor to prosecute a Bitcoin fraud case when I was at the US Attorney's office. I'm well aware of the dangers that it poses. That's why we need regulation, not deregulation, so that the bad actors can continue to abuse the system.

Lastly, what I will just say is I'm confused as to whether I'm in the special interest pocket or whether I'm in my own pocket by giving my campaign money. The bottom line is that, unfortunately, my opponent has been lying about me this entire race, and I'm putting my money in just to assure every single voter in New York 10 that I am beholden only to them and my own principles.

Brian Lehrer: What would you say to listeners in the District who might be uncomfortable with that idea of, as the New York Times described it, pledging at least $1 million of your own money and possibly millions more in hopes of fighting off the primary challenge from Mr. Lander. Their headline on that was, "Congressman's gambit to save seat, he'll personally match each donation." For people who are concerned about an individual who's much wealthier than the other individual spending so much of his wealth to what opponents would say is to buy the seat, what's your response to that?

Dan Goldman: Well, luckily, I've been in Congress now for almost four years, and I have a very clear, established record. The New York Times has called me one of the most liberal voting records in Congress. I think the proof is in the pudding, Brian, in terms of who is supporting me. The people who are supporting me in this race are the community leaders in NYCHA. Nearly every single NYCHA TA president in the 31 developments has endorsed me, including at the Gowanus development that Mr. Lander was just talking about, where they are supporting me and not him, even though that was in his old city council district.

I've got community leaders in Chinatown, the Lower East Side, Sunset Park, Red Hook, unions, the teachers, DC 37, AFL-CIO, building trades, progressive groups like Planned Parenthood, Sierra Club, gun safety groups, and gun safety leaders. I have been doing the work, and that is why those people who I am working with and representing to lift them up so they can get access to all of the benefits that I am lucky enough to have received supporting me, because they know I'm going to lead them to that point.

Brian Lehrer: One more time on this, Mr. Lander, and do address the Bloomberg news article that Mr. Goldman brought up showing you withdrawing your support for attacks on the top 1% in 2024.

Brad Lander: First, I'll say I noticed he did not answer your question. I think voters can't be comfortable with someone who only puts his own inherited wealth in the race, but then still takes money from Wall Street and private equity and crypto and from AIPAC, and then who turned around and voted to deregulate crypto. I'd invite people to read the New York Times article this weekend about what the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, the entity that he voted to give the regulation of crypto to.

It is entirely industry captured. It's enriching Donald Trump. It's corroding our democracy. Look at different moments. You aim to fight different ways. I, the prior year, had proposed attacks on the rich, and then we were able to use pandemic money to save our public schools from cuts. Eric Adams wanted to cut $400 million from our public schools, and I helped lead the fight to keep the money there. I don't remember Dan Goldman being involved in that fight at all.

Look, people know who the real progressive fighter in this race is because they've seen me doing it for 30 years, fighting to prevent evictions, fighting to build affordable housing. Yes, there's $200 million getting invested in Gowanus houses because of work I did in the Gowanus rezoning. It's not about the list of people and unions, and individuals supporting Dan Goldman or me. You could look on my website if you want to see the whole list of unions and Working Families Party, and MoveOn, and Indivisible, and most of the local elected officials and district leaders in the neighborhood. It really is about how we fight, who we show up with, and what we've delivered. If you ask fast food workers or freelancers or deliveristas, or tenants, they know who's shown up for them.

Brian Lehrer: All right. We hear you both touting some of your endorsements. Listeners, if you're just joining us, it's a candidates' forum between Democratic primary candidates Dan Goldman, the incumbent, and Brad Lander, the challenger in the 10th congressional district covering lower Manhattan and parts of nearby Brooklyn. Mr. Lander just mentioned AIPAC. We will follow up after a break with a caller. Nicole in Brooklyn Heights, stand by. Who wants to ask a related question and take some of your other questions for the candidates as this candidates forum continues right after this.

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Brian Lehrer: Brian Lehrer on WNYC. We are in a candidates forum between Democratic primary candidates Dan Goldman and Brad Lander in the 10th congressional district covering lower Manhattan and parts of nearby Brooklyn. Our next forum, by the way, will be on Friday with the three Democrats hoping to be nominated to run against Republican Congressman Mike Lawler, north of the city. That'll be here on Friday.

Now we'll take some of your questions or some more of your questions for Dan Goldman and Brad Lander. Our next caller identifies as a Lander supporter and is going to bring up Israel and the Middle East situation, US Policy toward that, and campaign finance in that respect, I think. Nicole in Brooklyn Heights, you're on WNYC. Hello, Nicole.

Nicole: Hi, Brian. Thanks for having me. I was calling because I've been following this race quite closely, and had the opportunity to listen to both Dan and Brad in some forums. In early April, there was a Brooklyn Young Democrats forum, and I attended, and I was shocked because Dan said he didn't take any funding from AIPAC. As somebody who looked into his disclosures, I've seen that he has taken direct PAC contributions. Like in September 2025, he took $5,000 from AIPAC, and that's the maximum annual limit.

He later said he returned the money, but I've looked through all his campaign disclosures, and as of March 31st of this year, he had not returned the money. We're looking at September 2025 to March 31st. There's no record of him returning that money. Just as a constituent, I am shocked that somebody who is a lawyer would stand up and say he doesn't receive money when there are receipts that show he did receive that money.

Brian Lehrer: Let me get a response. Thank you for that question. You heard it, Mr. Goldman, what would you say about, I guess, proof that you returned that money, and then we'll go on to your larger position on the issue?

Dan Goldman: Yes, thanks. Thanks for the question, Nicole. You had asked the question as well at a previous forum and that's when I told you that we did return the money and we did return the money. I don't take any corporate PAC money at all from AIPAC or anybody else. In this race, I think it's really important that the voters understand that I am an independent and free thinker that make my decisions based on what is best for them and what is best based on my own principles. I'm never going to hide that. I will be open and honest with you, and I'm not going to flip-flop around like unfortunately my opponent often does.

Similar to my opponent, I have the support of a broad array of pro-Israel organizations. He likes to focus on AIPAC, but I'm also supported by J Street, the leading pro-peace, pro-Israel organization, and so is he. That's because we are both progressive Zionists who believe in Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, and we both support a two-state solution to bring peace to the region.

There are actually many similarities. In fact, Brad and I have worked together on these issues in the past to try to bridge gaps and help to provide human rights and dignity and a future of peace and security for Palestinian civilians and for Israelis. It's disappointing to me that he's using this dog whistle attack when, in reality, we really do share the same core principles.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, would you lay out any core differences as it pertains to US aid to Israel, because this has gotten a lot of press as a core difference between you, Mr. Goldman is arguing right there that there isn't so much daylight?

Brad Lander: Boy, there is a very fundamental difference here. Dan has voted for every single US military aid package to Israel, including all the 2,000-pound bombs that destroyed the hospitals and schools in Gaza and killed tens of thousands of women and children in what I do believe was a genocide. I will sign on to the Block the Bombs Act, which he does not co-sponsor. I will sign on to the Ceasefire Compliance Act, which he does not co-sponsor. I won't vote for any additional US military aid to Israel while it's violating Palestinian human rights and international law.

I mean, he's right. I believe in the vision of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, but it's not acting consistently with Jewish or democratic values right now. It can't. While it keeps occupying the West Bank and Gaza and imposing apartheid on Palestinians, Israelis won't be safe until Palestinians are free. To me, the answer is to end US complicity. Unfortunately, he is endorsed by AIPAC. He takes millions of dollars from AIPAC contributors. For what it's worth, he does take corporate PAC contributions into his leadership PAC, if not his campaign account.

The differences here are strong. If people want someone who is really going to fight to end Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, to make it so that Jewish New Yorkers and Muslim New Yorkers can work together instead of be divided from each other, and to try to address the failures of US Foreign policy, the choice is clear in this race.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Goldman, to some of the particular things that Mr. Lander brought up there, he said, you don't sponsor the Block the Bombs Act, I want to ask if you would vote for it if it comes up to a vote in the House. For people who don't know, as Politico describes it, the Block the Bombs Act requires Israel's government to establish in writing the use of offensive weapons in accordance with US and international law, and it must be approved by Congress through a joint resolution. Would you vote for the Block the Bombs Act as described by that passage, if it comes to a vote?

Dan Goldman: Well, the Block the Bombs Act is not going to come to a vote because it was written last summer as an effort to support a ceasefire which was reached in October. Our laws enforce international human rights law already. It's called the Leahy Laws. To any country in all countries that we provide military and security assistance, those laws should apply. President Biden applied those laws in his administration, and I supported him in withholding weapons to the West Bank. I support Jerry Nadler's bill that would sanction those in the West Bank who are perpetuating that violence. I appreciate--

Brian Lehrer: Just to be clear, is that a no on the Block the Bombs Act, were it to come to a vote?

Dan Goldman: I think the Block the Bombs Act has been overtaken by events. I think there are other issues with Block the Bombs. I certainly believe that we need to enforce, and aggressively enforce international law against Bibi Netanyahu. Donald Trump has completely failed to do that, and he needs to do that. We have laws in place that would do that. If I could just add, Brian, we're talking about the different laws and different bills that came in Congress, where, of course, my opponent wasn't there.

When he was in a situation where he could do something about this, he did the opposite. He invested. He went on an orthodox radio show during the mayoral election and bragged about investing in Elbit Systems, the largest Israeli arms manufacturer. He increased shares in Palantir of taxpayer money by 700,000 over the course of his tenure at the City Comptroller's office. Palantir, as we know, is not only largely responsible for the ICE deportation dragnet, but also provided the technology that was used to bomb the school in Iran. When he had an opportunity-

Brian Lehrer: We get a response from Mr. Lander on--

Dan Goldman: -to do something, Brian. He's had that opportunity, he has failed.

Brian Lehrer: Just on two other things that he raised in his response. Would you use the words, as he does, genocide or apartheid to describe Israeli actions in Gaza in the one case and population control in the West Bank in the other?

Dan Goldman: Look, I am-- let's just say, first, on the things that I think we agree on, what happened in Gaza was absolutely horrific. The destruction, the humanitarian crisis was something that was awful and should not have happened. I work closely with the Biden administration to put guardrails around that. Language and labels, especially of legal terms, are beside the point in my view. What I think we need to be--

Brian Lehrer: That's a no on either genocide or apartheid?

Dan Goldman: Brian, I think it's important-- If I could just say, I think it's really important that we move away from labels and terminology, especially for legal terms, and focus on how we can arrive at a two-state peaceful solution so that everybody can live in peace there. That's where my focus has been. I think that's where all of our focus should be. I do think at the end of this, there should be an independent investigation to determine whether or not there were any crimes against humanity or war crimes, and anybody who committed them should be held accountable. I absolutely agree with that. Let's focus on what really matters, not on the terminology.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, the things that he raised there about when you're comptroller and the pension fund investments and Palantir and that other contractor that he brought up.

Brad Lander: Yes. First, he told you everything voters need to know. He doesn't support the Block the Bombs Act. He's going to keep voting for US Military aid to Israel. The idea that the Biden administration in some way enforced international law while it was sending all the 2,000-pound bombs that leveled Gaza. I just think it's a failure to show up with the idea that everybody's kids are created in God's image. We say B'tselem Elohim. Palestinian kids in Gaza did not deserve to be killed by weapons that we sent, and that Dan Goldman voted for, and that he's going to keep voting for. That distinction is pretty clear.

Brian Lehrer: He notes that you weren't in Congress, and he accuses you of being a hypocrite for saying what you've been saying, but then investing in Palantir and the other contractor, which, forgive me, I forget the name of.

Brad Lander: I've had the same point of view that we need to end Israel's occupation on the West Bank and Gaza since 1990. I've been clear about it over and over again. He knows that the comptroller does not have the power to divest from individual publicly traded companies. That's just not how the system works. According to his most recent congressional financial disclosure, he's personally invested in Palantir.

Dan Goldman: That's false. That's absolutely false. Why do you continue to spread these lies?

Brad Lander: It's according to your most recent congressional--

Dan Goldman: [crosstalk] to my disclosure, it's SPY. It's an index that includes Palantir in it. You know what?

Brad Lander: It's an index.

Dan Goldman: It's an index fund.

Brad Lander: It's an index. That's how you and [unintelligible 00:33:50] investments work. That's how the pension funds investments work.

Dan Goldman: That's not how your comptroller investments work.

Brad Lander: Let's talk about how you voted, because, again--

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, you were talking about your record. We're talking about your record now with Palantir, et cetera. Let me read a text from a listener on the other side of this who's skeptical of you again in relation to Mideast and related issues. Listener writes, who seems to be leaning Goldman, "Could you address Mr. Lander's appearance at a mosque where he stated that he would partner with Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib, given that many in the Jewish community view these figures as highly critical of Israel and controversial on issues affecting Jewish concerns, at times even expressing positions perceived as anti-Jewish? How does he respond to concerns that such statements could alienate members of the Jewish community?" How do you respond to that texter?

Brad Lander: Yes, thank you for the text. Look, I mean, boy, right now in the Jewish community, there are really tense feelings, and I feel it myself. One of the rabbis at Temple Israel in West Bloomfield, Michigan, where that terrorist drove a truck into the preschool, was my cabin co-counselor at a Jewish summer camp outside of Indianapolis in the 1980s. I feel these issues really personally and strongly.

Yes, I did go visit a mosque, and I explained how one of their prayers, Surah Ikhlas, is a lot like one of our central prayers, the Shema, because they both speak to God's oneness. I pointed to my partnership with Mayor Mamdani and the way we cross-endorsed in the election because we love this city and we want it to be more affordable and for everyone to be welcome.

Yes, then I said I'd like similarly to partner with two Muslim members of Congress, Ilhan Omar and Rashida Tlaib. I'll note that Representative Goldman voted with Republicans to censure her. I believe you have to reach out and build bridges. That doesn't mean you agree all the time. I've disagreed strongly with them and with the mayor. We don't have the same point of view on Israel and Palestine, or everything else. If the concern is I'm a bridge builder, I am a bridge builder.

Brian Lehrer: Do you feel the censure was not warranted? Do you feel that she acts in good faith with respect to the Jewish community?

Brad Lander: She and one of Dan Goldman's colleagues, Becca Balint, just did a town hall together. I believe that it was a mistake for him to vote with Republicans to censure her. She's the only Palestinian American in Congress, and she was speaking up for her people. There's ways to say, "Hey, when you say this phrase, here's how I hear it. I wish you would think about saying it differently." A partnership can, of course, include feedback in both directions. If we're going to build the partnerships necessary between Jewish New Yorkers and Muslim New Yorkers, we'll need more engagement.

Brian Lehrer: Congressman Goldman, one more go with your version or your take on that.

Dan Goldman: Yes, in many ways, I agree with Brad. This was a very emotional time, a few weeks after October 7th, when I was in Israel with my wife and young children. It was emotional for all of us. It was emotional for Rashida as well. When she said something that was very personally hurtful to me, I called her immediately, and we had a discussion and I tried to have a discussion. I think that is the better way of proceeding. I think that we do need more of that. Since that time, I have been a bridge builder in Congress within the Democratic caucus in trying to bring all of us together so that we can focus on a shared goal of peace and security around the world.

Brian Lehrer: He said you voted with Republicans to censure.

Dan Goldman: I did. What I'm saying is that I think there are better ways of dealing with that that I wish I had pursued. I said it was a very emotional time. Sometimes emotion gets the best of you. I'm certainly-- I understand the-- Brad is right. This is an incredibly, incredibly emotional issue right now for very, very many people. What I'm worried about is that it is dividing all of us. It is dividing Muslims and Jews. It is dividing Jews.

There's a dramatic rise in antisemitism with swastikas and calls for death to Jews and death to Israel, as well as the Islamic center in San Diego and the murders there. We've got to take the temperature down. I think, Brian, and this is part of the reason why I disagree a little bit about what critical issues are in this race. The critical issues are the ones facing the voters. Those are not necessarily what's going on 6,000 miles away. It's what's going on--

Brian Lehrer: One more follow-up related to this general topic. Last night, hardly thousands of miles away, members of the Park Slope Food Co-op, which is in the district, voted more than 2 to 1 not to sell Israeli products there. You have both said you would have voted against that measure, but according to our reporting, Mr. Lander, you declined to criticize members voting for it, while Mr. Goldman, you called such a vote anti-Semitic. How different are you on the Park Slope Food Co-op issue? Mr. Goldman, you can go first. Do you stand by it being an anti-Semitic vote?

Dan Goldman: Well, I think we agreed that it should not have happened. At least that's as far as I could tell from what Brad said. I think that Rabbi Timoner of Congregation Beth Elohim really said it best when she understood what the objective is, but that this was not the way to do it. When you start hearing in the debate about this kind of thing, the concept of Jewish supremacism, which is a old anti-Semitic trope used by David Duke and the Klan, then we are getting away from whatever the objective is to oppose the Israeli government.

In this case, it has created a tremendous amount of division, and it has fostered more division from an organization that really has no impact on foreign policy and will have no impact. All this does is creates more division. I think we ought to be trying to work together to reach a peaceful future for everyone in that region and a more prosperous future for the working families in this district who are struggling so much.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, any daylight between you on the Park Slope Co-op question?

Brad Lander: Yes. I don't think that vote was anti-Semitic. I would have voted no. Look, there's very strong feelings on both sides of this issue, and you have to take them seriously. Most members abhor what Israel is doing in Gaza and the West Bank. As US taxpayers, they feel complicit in genocide because Dan Goldman keeps voting to send billions of dollars in US military aid to Israel, and they can see that it destroyed all the schools and hospitals in Gaza. They don't feel heard by their government or by Democrats who keep taking funding from AIPAC and AIPAC donors, and they're angry about it.

On the other hand, of course, Jewish members of the co-op, many of whom believe, as we both do, in the vision of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state, don't want to feel unwelcome in their own grocery store. I don't personally support BDS. I would have voted against it if I were a member. The answer is to end US Complicity in what Israel is doing. That is a very serious difference.

Dan Goldman: Why don't you support BDS?

Brad Lander: Look, I've been to Israel before, and I'll go again. I care about the place, but it can't keep occupying the West Bank and Gaza and imposing apartheid on Palestinians, and the same old tired phrases of years and years that Democrats say but don't do anything about is not going to ever reach the place we need to. Israelis aren't going to be safe until Palestinians are free. Yes, that's a very different policy on this matter.

Dan Goldman: I fully agree with that. I fully agree with a two-state solution.

Brad Lander: You don't do anything to make it happen.

Dan Goldman: Actually, I do a lot.

Brad Lander: You don't do anything to make it happen when you could.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, do you--

Dan Goldman: I do a lot. The problem with BDS-- This is why you're--

Brad Lander: I don't support BDS, but I don't support sending military aid to Israel while it violates international law and Palestinian human rights either.

Brian Lehrer: Mr. Lander, one thing about BDS, as comptroller, you and Mayor Eric Adams seem to disagree about the city pension funds investing in Israel bonds. You let the investments lapse is, I think, the word you used. Adams said you were engaging in the BDS movement, boycott, divestment, sanction, but you characterized it differently. Why shouldn't that be seen as an act of BDS, letting that investment lapse at a time when that question was politically hot?

Brad Lander: The global BDS movement has very particular goals, and I think they're incompatible with the vision of Israel as a Jewish and democratic state. I didn't think the pension funds should keep investing in Israel bonds when they had no other foreign sovereign debt. It was giving Israel-- it was treating Israel more favorably than other countries, and it was inappropriate for a range of more internal technical reasons. I stopped investing Israel bond. I stopped investing the pension funds in Israel bonds.

Again, I don't want to keep sending US Military aid to pay for the bombs and for the occupation. That really is the biggest and most important distinction. We're talking about sending someone to Congress. What they vote on is foreign policy and foreign aid. There's a very sharp distinction between the two.

Brian Lehrer: Moving on--

Dan Goldman: If I could just make a point real quick.

Brian Lehrer: I want to get one other-- We're going to run out of time in four minutes.

Dan Goldman: I'd appreciate that opportunity to respond because I think it's very important.

Brian Lehrer: Just very brief, 15 seconds on this, because I think you both made your positions pretty clear, but go ahead.

Dan Goldman: Well, no, because what Brad just said is that he made a specific investment decision. What he said earlier about Elbit Systems and Palantir is that, as comptroller, he doesn't make specific investment decisions. Which one is it?

Brad Lander: Not what I said.

Dan Goldman: You cannot pick and choose.

Brad Lander: I mean, you don't know how the pension funds work. You don't choose individual publicly traded companies. They're in index fund, exactly what you said.

Dan Goldman: You bragged about being able to take away [crosstalk]

Brad Lander: Israel bond were done from a specific point in the cash desk by the prior comptroller, Scott Stringer, that was just inappropriate. I'm happy to give anybody the details who wants them here. There's a difference between how the bond investments were done and how index funds work. I'm happy to explain to you further.

Dan Goldman: The bottom line is that you like to tout some of your investments, and you'd like to walk away from others, and you can't [crosstalk].

Brad Lander: I've been clear on my positions for many, many years.

Brian Lehrer: We're coming to the end of our time. We tossed a coin for who would go first and last in closing statements of up to a minute or so each. The way the coin landed, Mr. Goldman, you go first.

Dan Goldman: Well, thank you, Brian. I'm glad we did this. I think what's really important I would like to relay to everyone listening is that this is the continuation of a fight that I have spent my life on, which is fighting for justice, fighting for opportunity, because I love this country, because this country has given my family so much. I want everyone else to get access to that.

Right now, it is way, way too hard for far too many people to even get the access to the opportunities that this country provides because our system is rigged and the billionaires are controlling it. People should not have to choose between rent, health care, or food. That happens way, way too much. This is exacerbated, of course, by Donald Trump. We need to remove him first so that we can right-size and unrig our system.

I have the policies that I wish people would look at. I have written more than 50 bills since I've been in Congress, many that have bipartisan support and will be pushed forward. When we're in divided Congress, and we need to make billionaires pay their fair share so that we can support working families, I'm proud to have all of the working families and communities in this district supporting me. They're supporting me as well as the unions, because I am on the ground fighting for working families rather than just talking about it.

Brian Lehrer: All right, Mr. Lander, he went a minute and a half. You'll get exactly that.

Brad Lander: Thanks, Brian. Look, our neighbors in New York 10, like Brian Lehrer listeners, are people of decency and compassion who love this city and love democracy. It's been my honor to work alongside you for three decades to prevent evictions and build affordable housing, to protect retirees' health care, to take on big corporate interests like Uber and Seamless and McDonald's, to pass groundbreaking legislation to protect workers.

Right now, our shared values are under existential assault. Donald Trump is abducting our neighbors and corrupting our government while the cost of living skyrockets, and so does the gap between the rich and the rest of us. Instead of taking on special interests, corporate Democrats like Dan Goldman take money from them and then vote with them too often, even as they erode our democracy.

I think the people of New York 10 want leaders who put their bodies on the line like I did when I started abducting our immigrant neighbors who don't take corporate money, who fight billionaires, and deliver for working families. They want people who are team players for our city. Something I showed when I did that cross endorsement. I'm proud to be supported by Mayor Mamdani and Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren and Working Families Party, and so many unions and community groups, and local electeds.

Mostly, I'm proud to fight alongside my neighbors. We've got a fascist president. We've got rogue ICE agents in our streets. We've got billionaires buying our elections. Around here neighbors showing up is [unintelligible 00:48:51].

Brian Lehrer: Thank you very much. Brad Lander, Dan Goldman, thank you both for engaging in this Brian Lehrer Show forum and engaging in our democracy and electoral process. We really appreciate it. Thanks very much to you both.

Dan Goldman: Thanks, Brian. Great to be with you.

Brad Lander: Thanks so much.

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